The Origin of Man

[DeMann]

I am curious. What denomination (or 'religion') believes in the origin of man as purported in the theory of evolution? How can one claim

Christianity and believe this theory? my most pressing question is, "Do those who believe in evolution believe that the Bible is God's revelation to man?"

[acco40]

Give it a rest. This is a scout forum.

[Rooster7]

acc040,

 

Not that I want to revive a debate, but DeMann has as much a right to ask these questions on this forum as others have. The moderator has allowed us the freedom to discuss almost any topic under the Issues & Politics heading. I think your comment does not relay the right message, espeically for those folks who are venturing out and posting for the first time. As for my thoughts on these questions, I have already provided my input under a different thread.

[ASM7]

DeMann

I believe acco40 and Rooster7 were just being honest. I see you checked out the "How we as humans came to be" thread. You can probably see that we have "beat that horse to death". You can also probably tell a lot about some of the posters on this forum. It is a very diverse group and a good forum because of that fact. I appreciate all the differing views and all the facts about the BSA. Welcome to the forum and I'm looking forward to your contributions.

Doug

 

[SR540Beaver]

Demann,

 

I am Southern Baptist, but can't speak for all Baptists and certainly can't speak for any other denominations. I don't believe in the origin of man as purported in the theory of evolution. However, I do believe that species do evolve thru time. The science is there, how can you ignore it? I do believe that the Bible is God's revelation to man. I believe that God is supreme and that he created everything. I believe he created man. It is all a matter of interpretation I gues. While I believe that God created man as the Bible states, I question whether Adam and Eve are actually two individuals or are representative of mankind. I question that the Earth was created in a literal 6 days. The word translated "days" actually is eons in the original language. Each day could have been 100,000,000 years for all we know. That sure fits better with scientific findings. That would also allow for the Earth to "evolve" into it's present state as we are now seeing how stars and planets form over 100 of thousands and millions of years. To say that following scientific findings somehow negates a belief in God creating man or Earth is silly. The ideas can co-exist and complement each other. Now I know some Southern Baptists that would throw me out for not taking a literal interpretation of the Bible. But what I stated above is how I personally can reconcile science and religion for myself.

[Rooster7]

kwc57,

 

I may or may not enter this debate to argue the merits of the so-called scientific evidence. Regardless, as a window into the mind of another believer, this statement befuddles me.

 

Each day could have been 100,000,000 years for all we know. That sure fits better with scientific findings. That would also allow for the Earth to "evolve" into it's present state as we are now seeing how stars and planets form over 100 of thousands and millions of years.

 

No matter what the scientific findings may indicate, your last sentence seems to be implying that God needed this time. Are you saying that God could not have created the earth in six literal days? Are you suggesting that God has limited capabilities? If so, your definition of God seems to be rather weak. If you were not suggesting this, thenwhile I still disagree with the theory of evolution, I would not find fault in your faith.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[SR540Beaver]

Rooster,

 

No, I am not limiting God. God could have created everything in 6/1,000,000ths of a second if he wanted to. Knowing that, is the fact that he took 6 "days" limiting God? He may have done it in 6 literal days some 4,000 years ago, but then how do you reconcile the age of the earth with that? Many Americans read their English translation of the Bible without knowing some of the actual literal translations of words that are not used in what we read. The original language has nuances that we don't always differentiate in English. When we start reading our translation literally and call the translation infallible, we set our selves up for mistakes. My main point is that you can believe in God as the Creator and as being supreme over all and still believe in science......as long as you don't deny what the Bible says. It said he created the Earth in 6 "days/eras/eons,etc". In other words, 6 time periods. Whether they were 6 24 hour days is the question. And even if you doubt that they were 24 hour days, you can still believe that God and only God created it.

[ScoutParent]

Science is a man made construct to attempt to explain things. Why would God's creation NEED to be explained by science? Read the Bible and then make science fit into that--not vice versa.

[Zorn Packte]

God, the Creator, started the ball rolling and then let physics do the rest. What is the Creator doing now? Probably playing shuffleboard or making another universe in an alternate reality.

 

You see, ScoutParent, your bible is filled with holes. Read the first couple chapters of Genesis and reconcile the inconsistencies.

[firstpusk]

Careful Zorn,

 

You never know what kind of test she will demand that you take.

 

ScoutParent,

 

Still waiting for that viable scientific theory that is an alternative to evolution. When you get done reading Genesis 1 and 2 could you get right on that?

[SR540Beaver]

ScoutParent,

 

Why do you see it as science VS religion? What I said easily fits into your perscription. The Bible says the Earth was created in 6 "time periods". The English translation translates the original language to be the word "day" which you and I interpret to be a 24 hour day. The actual language is not a confined limit of time. That can fit very easily into the scientific age of the Earth. Whether God created Earth in a fraction of a second or over billions of years is not the real question. The question is whether you believe God is ultimately responsible for the creation or not, regardless of a certain method or length of time. Trust me, my faith in God is unshakeable. But that does not cause me to turn a blind eye to scientific fact. That being said, evolution is a theory, not a fact and that is exactly how I approach evolution. I believe God created man apart from other animal species as the Bible says he did. That does not mena that species have not evolved over the ages.

[Rooster7]

Kwc57,

 

Great! I am happy to hear, as a fellow believer, that you do not place limitations on God. This is my biggest pet peeve for some folks that claim to be Christians and evolutionists. On the one hand, they say they believe. On the other, they say they have to believe in evolution because, "How else could God have done it?" That construct is pretty weak. But I digress, because you obviously acknowledge God's power and ability.

 

So, where are we? I for one, have no huge argument with you. I don't agree. I think you're wrong. But, I don't necessarily think you're denying God because of your belief in evolution for other species and/or your belief of a very old earth (millions of years). However, just as food for thought, let me throw this out for your intellectual amusement.

 

What if God created the earth in six literal days? What if none other than God confirmed this as fact to you? How would you reconcile the "undeniable scientific facts" against the word of your Lord and Savior? It's an exercise, so please don't debate itJust give it some thought. Before you read my theory, take five minutes to come up with your own.

 

Here are some of my thoughts

 

I believe that there may well be scientific evidence to suggest the earth is very old. However, I'm not compelled to believe that it's conclusive. God may have created that very evidence as a test for his people? Who's to say? I'm not suggesting that it's a test to validate faith, but it could be a test of one's resolve in His Word. Is it not possible that God created the earth in a few days, but provided some evidence to the contrary?

 

Or

 

Perhaps the scientific community is simply missing a piece of the puzzle. Do you find it impossible to believe that the scientific community might one day discover that their process was flawed?

 

Or

 

Isn't possible that many folks, who don't want to believe in God, spend their life trying to prove he doesn't exist? Perhaps a legacy of unbelieving scientists has corrupted the scientific community in general. If nothing else, they have created a bias environment within their own community, which encourages theories that deny God's existence?

 

There are so many possibilities. I don't fault people for believing in scientific theories, but I'm not convinced that science is unreliable. I don't care how many scientists are involved, the fact remains - flawed, sinful human beings postulated the theories and created the processes to prove them. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that man would devise a system to cast doubt about His existence. In fact, it seems rather predictable to me.

 

Now, given my premise, did you come up with any plausible theories on your own? Or, are you going to tell me (in the hypothetical) that despite God's assurances, you couldn't provide one reasonable explanation for the contradiction. Simply put, I know God exist. I know the bible is His Word. I wasn't raised in my faith. God gave it to me. It makes much more sense to me, to reconcile what I know (the bible) against what I'm uncertain of (the latest scientific theory) as opposed to the other way around.

 

However, I find no fault in your faith. You may even be right, although my heart (as well as my mind) tells me otherwise. I was hoping to give you something to think aboutBut perhaps you've already explored that avenue. Peace.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[ScoutParent]

The cambrian explosion, lack of speciation in the last 150 years since the theory of evolution was proposed, DNA evidence that suggests common ancestory, etc all contradict the theory of evolution. It very clearly states that God created each plant with seeds inside unto it's own kind. It also clearly states that He created animals unto their own kind. Your answer to why the scientists think the earth is one age and is actually not is in the Bible too. Take an evening and start reading it. You'll be amazed how many of these questions it answers directly.

 

[littlebillie]

"lack of speciation in the last 150 years"?

 

Well, first, when a new species IS discovered, how do you know we never knew about it before simply because it didn't exist before??? that it hasn't just recently evolved?

 

and consider that there are fewer and fewer areas where man has not put his mark, taken the environment under his control and established those species he finds desirable - much to the detriment and even extinction of other species. Once man has found something he likes, he really likes to keep it around.

 

Dogs, cats, cattle, carrots - whatever. Human activity has really reduced the arena in which evolution CAN take place, and he's constantly pushing into the remaining areas.

 

Finally, for this rant - what, you think 150 years is a long time? Not to species, not to continents, not to God.

 

And btw - how is the cambrian explosion used as an argument AGAINST evolution? Sorry, that eludes me...? Could you expand on that a bit? I'm not clear on the point.

[littlebillie]

"...as to a child."

 

I like to look at things this way: God tells us things as we become capable of understanding them.

 

Allegorically, if you will, we have the Creation of Genesis. When we as a race were young, He explained our origins as appropriate to our minds and understanding then, in gentle words that paved the way for later insight (btw - is there ANYone out there who thinks our current Bibles are word-perfect translations of the original texts? I'm all for 7 eons instead of 7 days! :-)

 

Anyway - in time, we came to new understandings of the world, and God led us unto science, giving us new tools to appreciate the complexity of His Creation, and the perfection of His Handiwork. Today, we can appreciate a work-in-progress, not yet complete as far as WE can see - we no longer need all art to remain fixed and frozen, and we are wrong to think that God is limited by such perception. Evolution is one Tool He uses - He sees all Creation, start to finish, while we are still stuck in the here and now - we can only see today, but God is not limited to today. His PERFECTION is in the eternal change as well as the frozen moment - it all comes together for Him, but we see only what we can. He sees Eternity, and all change is part of that Vision.

 

And as we have matured, He lets us see a little more, and understand a little more. If we are indeed His children, then He teaches us - probably more than we know! And He shows us a world that makes sense, where there is a logic to the motion of the planets, and where all life is one germ at the far end of the pond hop! That's really pretty awe-inspiring, to think of the loving-kindness of a Creation built in such a way that we could come to understand even part of it!! What a wonderful gift...

 

BUT - just when we think we can learn it all by the weekend, He throws out uncertainty and chaos, maybe as a way of putting His signature in a corner of the ever-changing canvas.

 

I expect that, later or sooner, He will let us understand a bit more of the mysterious sub-atomic side of His creation - but our test of worthiness may be that we don't kill ourselves before that time!

 

Just one perspective...