Bob White Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 "I don't know where you got your G2SS but mine doesn't say that waving a bag of urine and making threats is acceptable." "Oh what a wicked web we weave...." Who said anything about waving it about? He said he held it up. He displayed it he did not threaten anyone. I see how you can twist this to create a controversy based on fabricated "what ifs" but the fact is what the first scout did happened, and what you are accusing OGE's son of did not. It makes for good controversy but it lacks truth. You are correct that the G2SS does not say anything about this. The G2SS tells what behavior is unacceptable and what OGE's son did is not mentioned. I'm glad we agree. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturer2002 Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 (This message has been edited by Venturer2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturer2002 Posted September 9, 2002 Share Posted September 9, 2002 BobWhite, The Guide to Safe Scouting could be interpreted in such a manner as to classify this as a bullying incident, which by its very definition is a threat of force. A scout threatening someone with an ax if they didn't shut up would be judged based on the possibility of danger, not the actual acts commited thus far. Clearly he stepped over the line, let us not lose that. I believe that this thread was intended to bring attention to the double standards used in judging scouts by certain forum posters. What Bob White, OGE, and others have posted only seems to further prove Yaworski's case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaworski Posted September 9, 2002 Author Share Posted September 9, 2002 "He said he held it up. He displayed it he did not threaten anyone. " "I have a gun and I know how to use it" is considered a threat. Brandishing a bag of urine and uttering similar words is equally a threat. We all know that he wasn't announcing that he was skilled in the operation of a pee bag. As, I said before, humourous intent or not, it was a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Let me get this straight. You are actually holding a bag of urine to brandishing a gun? Earth to yaworski! It's time for a reality check. That's not even twisted logic cause it did't start with any logic at all. So when a camper releives himself against a tree that is the same as shooting a gun in the woods? In a previous string you said you did not have a job in scouting. I applaude your judgement on that one. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Venturer2002 says: I believe that this thread was intended to bring attention to the double standards used in judging scouts by certain forum posters. Well, I believe this thread was started for the purpose of creating a childish spat -- which for some people appears to be the favored level of discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaworski Posted September 10, 2002 Author Share Posted September 10, 2002 "You are actually holding a bag of urine to brandishing a gun?" I'll guess that you left out a word. Holding a bag of urine? No, I said that he was brandishing a bag of urine. You're up to your old tricks of changing words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Sorry for the typo. That was supposed to be ....You are actually comparing holding up a bag of urine to brandishing a gun? This is not a play on words, this is what you implied and there is no comparison between the two other than in your own contrarian discussion style. Venturer2002, I will take you at your word that you are an 18 year old Venturer and ASM. You are a very young leader and I caution you there is a lot ahead of you to learn. Choose your role models with care. Your posts show you following a very negative very unproductive course. At 18 you have just barely crossed the line from a scouting youth to an adult leader. The purpose, concepts, methods, skills are much different than those used as a scout. Before you start making decisions you should start asking questions and learning from others who use and understand correct scout methods. As Yoda would say "inexperienced you are in the way of the force, and powerful the dark side can be". Be cautious of that dark side. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slontwovvy Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 This conversation is becoming so ludicrous it hardly dignifies a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 slontwovvy is right, I'm embarrased thqat I allowed myself to be drawn into this insanity. I didn't like seeing OGE's son accused of this tripe and I should have just ignored it. I goofed. I will not add to, or respond to, any more of the postings in this string. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Gang, While brandishing a bag of urine is a lot different than brandishing a gun, both could be considered a threat. And if one of the Scouts who was the brandishee told his parents this upset him and mom & dad made a stink, heads could roll! It's all in how you interpret the policy! That's where the real debate is! By the way, I think the brandishing a bag of urine was very creative! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Eagle Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 WOW, this sure did get blown out of proportion. The initial post from yaworski was directed as sarcasm towards OGE from another post. Everyone sure fell into that trap. What brought me out of the nest was when bob tried to turn Venturer2002 away from his own opinions. It takes guts to take on the yaworski, bob, and others in this forum. Bob, Venturer2002 may be only 18 but that doesn't mean inexperienced. How quick we are to assume that they don't have a real view of the situation. If anyone, being closer to the age of the scouts we talk about, has a scouters level eye, Venturer2002 does. I know a lot of older scouters that don't have a clue. Yoda quotes: "do or do not, there is no try". Not good advise from a 450yr old.(This message has been edited by Double Eagle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutParent Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 "It was the belief of Lord Robert Baden Powell that no person can be complete without a firm belief system of some sort, of their choosing. It also is the stated policy of the BSA that atheists aren't welcome, a policy that I firmly stand behind. I have dealt with many kids like him, they're disturbed, and a holistic approach to this situation should be taken. You can treat the mind and psyche of a person, but unless their soul is also bandaged up in the process than it will all come to naught. Believe me, I do accept that psychiatry works to some degree in some instances, but you're not addressing the problem at hand: a spiritual blackhole. I also agree with suspension until they can shape up, but I still urge little dove and their Troop to take another look at the situation." (This message has been edited by Venturer2002) Sure sounds like someone who is toying with the dark side to me. Further I looked, to no avail, for where Venturer2002 said he was 18 or an asm. What he did say was he was born in the mid 80's and in his profile he lists den chief and junior asm as his currrent positions in scouting. Just wanted to make sure this scout wasn't misrepresented here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Venturer2002, While I may not agree with you 100% of the time (or maybe I do, I haven't really looked at all of your posts), I encourage you to speak your mind freely and without fear of being judged. You may be young, but that doesn't mean your opinion is tainted or immature. Interestingly, Bob claims to take the high road, but then he warns you to be careful about choosing your role models, simply because you agreed with someone who disagrees with him. Now I ask you, does that sound like someone who is making a principled and cogent argument, or was he insulting the character of those who disagreed with him? I think his implied rhetoric is clear, but I'm sure he will dissect his words and prove his innocence in this matter. Youth does not necessarily equal ignorance. Continue to learn from others, but don't doubt yourself. Your thoughts have been well presented and they show a maturity beyond your years. In fact, they are so well presented that I seriously doubt that you would utilize the Internet to find a role model. Obviously, someone in the real world is teaching you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaworski Posted September 10, 2002 Author Share Posted September 10, 2002 "Youth does not necessarily equal ignorance" Youth usually implies inexperience but youth is also usually accompanied by uncluttered thought, and idealism. Way back when, one of my physics professors told me that most of the great theories in physics were first postulated when the physisit was young. It may have taken their lifetime to fine tune it and prove it but the original ideas came when they were young. In effect, what Bob was saying to Venturer2002 is, "Hey young'un! If'n ya know wots good fe ya, ye'll shut up, cuz I know what's what and you don't!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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