bullying incident

[maai]

I would appreciate your advice about a bullying incident.

 

At the weeklong camp one of the new Scouts was fishing by the lake. He had taken his folding chair with him. An older scout (by a year or two)came along and took the chair down the shore several hundred feet. V. did not care at the time because he was standing. At dusk V. went to get the chair. B. refused to give it to him. B. called the younger boy some sexual terms, which did not discourage V. from trying to get the chair. V. had his hand on the chair. B. stroked his hand, saying, "I know you want to get it on with me. Come here and do it with me," and other such talk. V. still tried to get the chair. B. then moved next to the younger boy so that he could make humping movements on the younger boy.

 

Later that night the younger boy talked to the adults in the camp (I was one of the adults), telling the story. B. was lurking in the shadows. After V. told his story and we sent him on his way to his tent (by the way, he wanted us to do bed checks every 10 minutes because he was afraid B. would come after him for reporting the incident). The older boy talked with us adults. He said that he was trying to mess with the younger boy's mind, and that, yes, he had used that language, and yes, he stroked his hand, and yes, he made humping movements. After he was talked to, and as he was going back to his tent, one of the other adults said, 'No more of this humping business, you hear me? No more of this humping business.'

 

The problem is the follow-up. The older boy was not sent home. It was not until the father of the younger boy insisted that the older boy be sent home that it was done. By the end of the week the story going around some of the adults was that it was a little shoving and pushing and boys-will-be-boys stuff and that it was being blown all out of proportion.

 

So I wonder if others in this forum perceive this as bullying as I do. I personally think it to be over-the-top bullying, and quite strange behaviour for a young teenage boy, who usually do everything they can to keep themselves from being labeled homosexual. I don't think it was a sexual thing but a bullying incident. Am I out of step with Scouting here or is it simply a difference of opinion with some of the guys in my organization?

[Bob White]

maai,

Ask yourself this question. If it had been an adult doing those actions would you have called it bullying? I think not. This was improper sexual conduct and had no place in the program. the parent of the offended boy had every right to demand he be sent home and he should have. This is not scout behavior. No boy with any kind of decent character would suddenly act this way.

 

Personally, and I know that this is going to cause a stir, I would advise the charter organization to remove him from the program and would report the incident to the council executive and ask that his scouting membership be revoked.

 

Some will think this extreme, but I take my responsibility to protect the other scouts as seriously as I expect the offending scout to take his committment to the Oath and Law. His actions violated at least 9 of the 12 points of the Law.

 

Bob White

[OldGreyEagle]

Even if you take the sexual comments out completely, you have one scout helping himself to another's property and refusing to give it up when requested. In our troop its understood that if you leave a chair it will get used. Its also understood the owner gets to relaim his chair anytime he wants.

 

When you add the sexual comments, it makes it so much worse. How many people heard the older scout admit his part? They may be waiting to see what the troop leadership does, if nothing is done, and someone else reports the incident then the troop leadership becomes tainted by the incident. You cant let this lie, it must be reported and investigated. If the investigation comes to the conclusion some kid was playing mind games, at least it was BSA that concluded that, otherwise the troop is open to all sorts of problems. The father of the young scout may be poised to report to Council, can you take the risk of having your troop presented as tolerating such behavior?

[Double Eagle]

I disagree with Bob on kicing him out. One thing your unit has is a trust where the older scout can admit to the adults about the incident. Many other youths would have take the "I didn't do it" approach/defense. If he is able to open up and admit it, there is a doorway for the adults or a counselor to either open or close. Now is the best time to talk about the insert in every scout handbook about abuse. Granted I don't see this as a "boys will be boys" issue. This is not only bullying but abuse. My question is how the older scout's parent(s) took the removal from camp.

 

One final thought is how the troop family (committee, scouts, CO, and parents) may perceive how after the adults on-site handling it were "bullied" by the younger scout's parents to change their minds about their actions and change to the removal from camp.

[Bob White]

Double Eagle, if we agree that it is abuse then you have a legal responsibility to report it. Otherwise in most states you personally could face civil and criminal charges. I will go to any length to bring a scouting program to a boy. The only thing I require in return is that he keep his promise to behave in a scoutlike manner. This scout broke that trust in a big way. The other parents trust me to do everything possible to protect their sons from abuse. As leaders we have a moral and legal obligation to report this as abuse and remove the scout.

 

This is not behaviour to be dealt with lightly.

 

Bob White

 

PS; Good night all!(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Kicking him out is the wrong thing to do at this point. I think the situation was handled by the adults very well up to the point of sending the Scout home. This could be a one time incident. If it occurs again, then there is a real problem & soemthing more severe should happen.

 

It was never stated if the father of the younger boy was a registered leader in the Troop. If not, I would not let a parent dictate whether another Scout should be sent home.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[le Voyageur]

I agree with BobWhite in the entire - send this kid packing, and remove him from the program.

My reasons, this kid is showing all the classic signs of a sexual preditor. No need to try and save what can't be save...

[Bob White]

Whether the father ias a registered scouter or not has no bearing on the issue. He is the father of the abused scout. That's all the credentials he needs.

 

The adults adult leaders in this case did not follow good youth protection protocol. They risked the safety of the scouts, ignored the abusive act, failed to report the incident as required by law and the BSA policies. Removing the scout from the outing is the least they should have done.

 

The father of the offended scout showed the best judgement of the entire group.

 

Bob White

[sctmom]

It is a sexual thing! I'm not saying the older boy is homosexual. This is sexual harrassment --- unwanted sexual advances, doesn't matter the intent!!!! This is the type of thing that could cause the victim to hurt himself or another person. Do this in the school or the workplace and you are GONE! Doesn't matter about the gender of the people involved, it is sexual harrassment.

 

What else is going in this troop? The older boy obviously knew he could get away with this and knew even if he admitted it that he would suffer no consequences.

 

Anyone read the booklet at the front of the Boy Scout handbook? How about Youth Protection training?

 

If I was a parent in this troop I would be livid. If the older boy has never done anything like this before (hard to believe) I acceptable to letting him back in after a suspension and some counseling. You can lose this one boy OR you can lose most of the troop. Which is better?

 

I think the adults should also think about how they would have felt if they were treated that way. Most men don't take kindly to being hit on by another man, even if it was a joke.

 

The older boy should have been sent home immediately. I don't care what time it was nor how far his parents had to drive. I would have had 2 adults sit up and stare holes throw him until his parents arrived to remove him.

 

Also, the younger boy needs to be commended privately for being brave in face of danger, told that this was not his fault and he did the right thing in telling. The older boy remaining at camp made this an unsafe environment for the younger one.

 

Registered leader or not, if I say my son is in danger, you better remove the problem immediately or you become part of the problem. Grrrrrrr...don't mess with baby bears because mama bear is nearby!

 

[yaworski]

Good Lord, listen to you people. This is a "boys are boys" situation and it is bullying. The older kid was doing what he did to get a rise out of the younger kid but it backfired on him.

 

Should we condone it? No more than we should condone sewing someone into their sleeping bag.

 

Back when boys took showers after gym class, this sort of crap went on constantly in the locker room. Why? Because boys want to see if the other boy has the cojones to stand up for himself. Because boys are stupid. Because. . .because . . .because.

 

The victim should have not gone to the adults but should have told every other boy in the camp that the older kid was making homosexual passes at him. That would have turned the tables and made the bully the butt of the joke.

(This message has been edited by yaworski)

[acco40]

I agree somewhat with yaworski & maai. It is a bullying incident and not sexual harassment. Around my neighborhood, the boys (10 - 13) call the other boys "gay" as an insult. I try my best to stop it. The reason the boys use the term is that it gets a rise out of the other boys, it sounds "mature" to them, etc. If calling them "green" got the same response, that is what they would use. Our society in general is phobic about all things sexual. The boys pick up on this and use it for bullying purposes.

 

Think about this; one boy makes fun of another boy's penis. Is that sexual harassment? No, just plain bullying. Rape is an extreme for of bullying. It is done for power and control, not sexual gratification (excluding consensual statutory rape).

 

The decision to send the offender home or not is difficult. If there was any shread of evidence that the victum of bullying still felt threatened, by all means send the bully home. Notify the bully that if any such behavior is repeated, he is gone. It is our duty to provide a safe haven for all Scouts.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Bob White]

The phrase "Boys will be boys" is an out an out evasion of adult responsibility.

 

"Boys will be men" and how they treat others as men is molded by how they learn to treat others as boys. Why would anyone recommend a scout to go around spreading gossip or lies about another person,let alone another scout? What kinda of character develop is that?

 

Again, reconsider what we would have thought if the antagonist was over 18. This is not bullying and even if it was it has no place in Scouting. A person who acts like this does not just start this behaviour out of the blue. He has been allowed to escalate to this point by adults who turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to his previous misdeeds.

 

Whether you label him a bully or a sexual harrasser, his actions are prohibited in the BSA under the policies and regulations of Youth Protection. those rules are there to protect the victim not to pamper the violator. To ignore those rules places the chartering organization and every leader present legally liable for that boys actions, both criminally and civilly. No Scout has the right to endanger others in this manner.

 

To write it off as machismo posturing or to say that the scout should not report this sort of behaviour is irresponsible. An adult who would tell this to a boy is as dangerous to the unit as the scout who committed the harrassment.

 

 

[eagle90]

Amen, Bob!

 

[evmori]

What laws were violated? From what I read none were. The Scout was not abused. He was bullied. There is no sexual abuse here! I agree with the "boys are boys". If this behavior from the same Scout continues then there is a problem & it needs to be dealt with.

 

I think we are going a little overboard here. Was this a violation of the YPG? I don't think so.

 

Kicking this kid out at this point will not accomplish anything. And letting a father who is not a registered leader dictate how a Troop will handle a situation is not right! What if the older Scout did no more than call the younger Scout a moron and the parent wanted the older Scout sent home? Should the Troop send him home? NO!!!! Boys will push the limits if they think they can get away with it. Usually when they get caught, they stop.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

Ed

You need to get a refresher in YP.

It was a sexual encounter!

Hindsight being 20/20 I would have sent the scout home, suspended him and report it to the CO and let them decide what to do.