Adults not listening

[Quixote]

One of the other threads reminded me of some issues we recently had in our Troop relating to Adults (leaders and parents) not listening to instructions and I was wondering if it is widespread and how better to deal with the issue:

 

 

To illustrate:

My son joined his troop in March after crossing over from Webelos - at a meeting in February (attended by all new parents) the SM stated that ALL adults must have a class 3 medical that includes a physical each year (troop policy vs. BSA policy of >40).

 

One of our new ASM's who was at the meeting in Feb. tried to go to camp without having his physical done and was angry at the other adults for not reminding him before the fact (even though he was at the meeting in February and it was in writing on the Summer Camp paperwork given to the adults to review and sign.)

 

Another case - an adult who was at one of the planning meetings for our recent canoe trip where the need for swimmer classification for ALL participants was discussed, was upset because he wasn't allowed to go on the trip with his new scout because he wasn't swimmer tested (never mind the fact that he didn't even SIGN UP)- which caused him to pull his son from the trip which screwed up the float plan which caused great angst among the scouts and the SM (second no-show by this scouter because of parental "lack of understanding")

 

I pointed out to the ASM in the first case when he called me the morning the boys were supposed to go to camp that "yes, I had gotten my physical (in April as a matter of fact) and why hadn't he since they had stated that at the February meeting?"

 

I just had a sit-down with the new scouot parent and clued them in on the angst they were causing in the troop because of their pulling their boy out at the last minute from trips and how it had upset the plans of the boys - the response was "well, we were concerned that you (me) weren't going and we don't know the rest of the leaders that well (the other ASM was the CUBMASTER last year!) and besides, he wanted to go to the baseball game with us."

 

Thanks for letting me vent - any suggestions are welcome....

 

Quixote

[OldGreyEagle]

Your not the only one,

 

Last year (sept 2001) the PLC said they thought every scout going to summer camp in 2002 should have a complete Class A uniform. This meant uniform pants/shorts as well as a shirt. In the past, only a shirt was required. Well, after all the times it was mentioned, all the times it was printed in hand-out, two scouts showed up in camp without uniform pants supported only with a parental "I didnt know". And one was an ASM. So its not only you

[sctmom]

I had the same problem when I was a Webelos leader. I would tell parents over and over, send letters to the home via post office, send letter home with the boys, hand things directly to the parents AND still get the "I didn't know". Or the famous "oh, it's THAT weekend?"

 

We all had the same calendar. Anything I planned I tried to notify people months in advance. It didn't matter.

 

The Webelos handbook has a section for parents. Most of the parents never looked at, even after signing that they had read the section and discussed it with their child.

 

At times I felt I was going to have to go to their house and remind them to work on activities.

 

All of us misunderstand things or forget things at times, but it is the ones who are never "in the know" that whine the loudest.

 

[ScoutParent]

It sounds like you set it up to tell them and then to remind them at least once which is good. Some of the initiative has to come from the individuals being told. Troop websites and a troop newletter are both good ways to post information once and can be referred to if memories are dim.

 

As far as pulling their son out of trips at the last minute, that would certainly be annoying. Did you make it clear to the 2nd father that sign ups for the canoeing trip were on a particular date and that only those signed up by that date could participate. Was a swimmer testing offered? Were the parents and scouts notified in advance?

 

Having been a cub scout leader from tigers through 2nd year Webelos, I understand how frustrating it is for you when parents don't take the time to read materials you've spent your time preparing. Most of the time I found that they would rely on the leader to remind them if the leader was willing to do that. An instance like you explained where they are not able to participate is probably one of the best ways to get their attention. Now they will probably be sure to read everything! Sometimes it's hard to know who is learning more from scouting...the scouts or the scout's parents! Personally, I believe we all grow through the experience, Leaders, parents, and scouts alike.

[Twocubdad]

It's not just the parents, Pack leaders can be just as bad. I'm our district's Roundup Chairman and sent letters to 21 Cubmasters asking for them to let me know which schools their Packs wanted to recruit. I even provided stamped, addressed return envelopes. Five of the 21 responded.

 

You can set a nice table, but you can't make them eat. My attitude is that our Pack runs a good program, plans plenty of activities for the boys, but we're not going to beg anyone to participate. With Cubs at least, it's all up to the parents. I have one boy in my den who hasn't been to a meeting since before Christmas. I've run into him two or three time around town and he always says he wants to start coming back to Scouts. His dad tells me they never know when we meet. "Every Monday at 6:30," I tell him, but we never see the boy. I feel bad for him and I know this particular kid could really benefit from Scouting, but there's only so much you can do.

 

We've recently had a problem similar to Quixote's of people verbally signing up to attend events but not showing -- after we've already paid for food, etc. Our new policy is that every event has a written "application" form and that payment is upfront and non-refundable. Maybe if it costs them, they'll be a little more diligent.

 

[eisely]

I could not begin to count the times where parents' failure to listen or read something screwed something up for the unit and/or their sons. Collecting non refundable deposits for outings ahead of the outing is the best way to get people serious about those commitments. Beyond that, I follow up with people on those things I deem critical to safety and let the rest of it roll off my back.

[k9gold-scout]

Our troop elimated the medical exam problem by requiring all scouts and any ASM to have his medical on file in our "medical book". We update these (5 copies) every year. As far as training, we schedual a SM basic for all new parents (and any adults we missed last year). Same for youth protection.

Yes some parents flake out on their duties but being a scout for 7 years dosn't make an Eagle Scout either.

[KoreaScouter]

In my experience, the greatest drama for a Boy Scout leader comes from just-bridged Cub Scout parents. They're used to the den leaders running things, making decisions, and spoon-feeding the parents on everything they need to know. Many parents, especially if they don't have Scouting experience themselves, expect the same treatment once their sons join a Troop. For some, it's a very rude awakening when they find we don't operate like that.

 

I had one mom in particular (Dad was in the home, but not really involved) who expected a personal call from me to repeat everything her son was told by his PL, SPL, and so on. I don't think I ever got it through her head that we're boy-led and that I expect the PLC to get the word to the Scouts, and the Scouts to talk to their parents.

 

To their credit, the Scouts get used to taking the responsibility by and large, it's the parents that are slow on the uptake...

 

ks

[scottsmom121]

This past year I had a Tiger den. I had the parent/coach sitting right there at every meeting. I made sure I handed out typed sheets with all the information that they needed meetings, events etc. Today I was talking to one of the other parents and it seems one of the boys mothers (she attended the meetings) felt that I slighted her son last year. He did not get as many elective beads and sports and academics awards as 3 other boys in particular. That I was favoring these other 3 boys. I explained at every meeeting about them going through the book and signing the things that alot of people do regularly to give the boys the electives they needed. It was tough getting this mother to even do the things that were required for her son to achieve his rank. The 3 boys that she is referring to worked hard with their parents to earn what they did and perhaps another factor in this is that the 3 boys fathers are all ex scouts themselves. The same opportunities were given to all. As with any den some of the kids/parents did more than others.

I agree with the statemet short of going to their house what more can you do. I sent things with them in writing, gave them verbal support and coaching at the meetings and also did alot of reminder calls...

One of the leaders even came up with a little saying we put on things.

You as a Parent + Me as a Leader = A Successful, Proud Cub Scout

Let's Work Together

Let's hope for a better listening year.

(This message has been edited by scottsmom121)

[yaworski]

As someone who has organized and run numerous events that involved hundreds of people, I've been on both sides of the issue.

 

One problem can be information overload. I was given a 40 page handout about summer camp this year. Was anyone going to read the entire thing, from cover to cover? Not likely.

 

Reportedly, the high points were covered at a meeting that I attended but I don't recall it and consequently, I missed a bunch of important stuff.

 

There is also a tendency in organizations for the people in charge to assume that everyone knows what's going on. Unfortunately, this leaves the new folks in the dark, especially if they haven't wormed their way into the right clique.

 

Important points need to be bullet items on a single sheet of paper. Also, important items need to be brought up frequently. For example, the troop newsletter could have a section that says, "Do you have your medical form on file? Did you take your swim test yet?"

 

Most of us are incredibly busy folks today. When you leave for work at 6 AM and get home at 8 PM, it is very easy for things to slip through the cracks. Unfortunately, most 11 year olds don't have the ability to pick up the slack for their parents.

 

 

 

[yaworski]

"Last year (sept 2001) the PLC said they thought every scout going to summer camp in 2002 should

have a complete Class A uniform."

 

This year our SPL passed the word that all Scouts needed to bring their entire uniform including neckerchief. Who showed up without a neckerchief? The SPL's brother.

[littlebillie]

yep - sure sounds like everyone's human out there!!!

 

 

bless us all!

[bt01]

Quixote

If it was Summer Camp (BSA) or a camping trip any and very adult should have a physical. If some thing goes wrong and he/she cannot speak, they can get medial treatment.

His son not tested as a swimmer??? Plan a troop activate at pool so everyone can be tested as a swimmer. At the same time everyone can be working for there second and first class swimming requirement.

 

[Quixote]

btps - I agree - it was a BSA run camp and it was required - my point was that the adult who was told in February and given the written forms which stated that a physical was needed didn't get it done and then wanted to blame it on others not informing him.

 

As for the swimmer test, we arranged for all new scouts and whoever else (parents, siblings, etc.) to use a pool on two seperate evenings with life guards provided to pass the swimmer test. All new scouts and MOST new scout parents came and passed (even the one who didn't understand the physical for summer camp requirement), but one other set of parents didn't - their loss.

 

Quixote

[le Voyageur]

Seems that I'm not the only one with this problem, but I've another one that is causing me a lot of heartburn...which is a forged, or altered med form in which the parent or unit leader will use to shoehorn an underage, or medically compromised scout into a high adventure program.

 

Nation Standards for Council High Adventure and Specialty Adventure Programs are very specific as to age.

To quote directly from the Standards and referring to Standard M3(the M means manditory with no exceptions)

 

" Every participant must be a registered Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or Venturer and must have attained the age of 13 or have completed the seventh grade by January 1 of the year he or she will participate. Programs requiring greater physical strain, mental stress, or higher levels of skills are limited to older Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, and Venturers. Experience levels and preadventure training are considered in determining age standards higher than the minimum."

 

Here's the story behind the angst...mid summer of our trek we're running a large crew, about 16 boats on the water (32 souls including guides). At check in we go through the med forms, everything seemed to be okay with the exception of one, the form just didn't look right. The unit leader assured us everything was okay and the scout would be fine. The scout ended up being cargo for the week, didn't have the stamina to paddle for long hours, or to carry his weight on the portages. As the unit was driving out of camp and headed for home one of ass't unit leaders bragged that this kid was only 12! Even though in our precamp handout the age limit was expressed these unit leaders choice to ignore this requirement. These unit leaders actually put this scout's life, as well as the lives of the guides in at risk. Had this kid flipped in the rapids and needed to do some very serious swimming he would of never made it to a safe haven...just something to think about....