Call to Ban Morman married fathers

[Rooster7]

If you are asked to perform such a function, you are not being asked to do it for your own benefit or as part of your own individual relationship with God, but for the benefit of the group. The needs of the group should therefore be taken into consideration. In such a situation, I would want everyone to feel included and comfortable. I think God would be happy with that.

 

Perhaps there is a subtle point here that is being misunderstood. I'm not suggesting that a group prayer, said at a troop function, should be for the benefit of the individual. Of course, the prayer should be relating to the group. Yet, no one should say a prayer that contradicts one's personal beliefs. The listener is passive. He can accept or reject references to God or anything else his conscience tells me to do. The person saying the prayer is proactive. His words are his own, and they should be reflective of his personal faith. This is especially true when one is saying a prayer.

 

Random House defines prayer as "a spiritual communion with God"

 

I pray to God, not to a generic supreme being. When I offer such a prayer, people in my troop can rest assured that I am praying for all of them. It is inclusive. However, to suggest that because I feel compelled to recognize the God of my faith that I must bow out of public prayers is religious bigotry. You say, "Say a generic prayer for all or don't participate in this portion of the program." I say, "Say a prayer for all, but pray to the God of your faith." It is presumptuous to expect every Scout or Scouter to be able to pray to a generic god. Who is to say that this practice should be considered normal and acceptable? What do you know about my faith and everyone else? As I said, in my case, you might as well ask me to ignore my personal duty to God, which is against the Scout Oath. The God of my faith is a jealous God and he demands that I offer prayers to Him alone. So I say yespray for the benefit of the entire troop, but pray to God according to your own faith. If anyone objects, I would suggest that they read the Constitution. Perhaps more importantly, I suggest that they read the Scout Oath. BSA does not ask me to deny my faith; there should be no exception for public prayers.

 

What I find most offensive about your statement is this - "you are not being asked to do itas part of your own individual relationship with God" In my faith, every prayer offered has to with one's individual relationship with God. No one in Scouting should ask anyone else in Scouting to say a prayer that ignores his relationship with God.

 

Lastly, I find the comments of the politically correct to be amusing. Depending on the topic, the people involved, and the day, they often contradict themselves. For example, if we're talking about any other faith aside from Christianity, I hear the PC crowd say:

 

"I want my child to be exposed to as many faiths and cultures as possible."

 

"We should not suppress the faiths of others."

 

"Let people be free to practice their faith as they see fit."

 

I agree with the above statements. However, when the conversation is turned around and the religion of Christianity is being discussed (especially as practiced by conservatives and evangelicals), the same PC crowd says:

 

"You have to be inclusive."

 

"Public expressions of your faith will suppress the faiths of others."

 

"If you want to live your faith, go to your church."

 

"Freedom of Religion" and tolerance is for ALL. Religious freedom and tolerance is not localized to specific buildings of worship. It is not a "safe zone" found within the property lines of your church. It's supposed to be a public right. BSA recognizes and respects this right; Scouts and Scouters should too.

 

[sctmom]

Let me summarize what I hear Rooster saying:

 

If Rooster is asked to say a prayer, in any setting, he will say a prayer that is meaningful to his faith and in line with his faith. If someone else is asked to say a prayer and does so from another faith, he will silently and respectfully listen. He will not expect anyone else or anyone else's child to say the exact prayer he says, especially if he does not know their faith. He would recommend his faith's prayer and explain why, but not INSIST you say it. He also will not say a prayer from someone else's religion, since that would be against his own faith.

 

Rooster, do I have that right?

 

If so, I fully agree with you! And being one of the "PC crowd", I will go on record saying you are someone I want my child around. That I disagree with you on some things, but would gladly point out to my son that you are a great example of a person strong in their faith. I do want my child around examples of Christianity that are positive. As a child when I began to see what I felt was hypocrisy in Christianity, no one discussed the issue with me and I still struggle with it today.

 

[Rooster7]

sctmom,

 

First, thanks for hearing and understanding my point of view. Second, thanks for the kind words.

 

You do seem to understand what I am saying, with one small exception. I wouldn't use the occasion of a prayer to teach anyone about my faith, unless specifically asked to do so. I think, with the possible exception of my references to God, the prayer would be self-explanatory and compatible with people's expectations. For example, if I was asked to say a prayer for the troop traveling on an outing, I might say:

 

Heavenly Father, please protect our boys and the adults accompanying them as they travel to camp. We seek your mercy and love. In Christ's name, I pray. Amen.

 

I do not have a problem with generic prayers offered by others if that is what they choose to do. I'm simply saying it should not be mandatory. For NJ's approval, I agree that any prayer officially adopted by a troop should consider the entire troop and not just a segment of its population, with exception to troops chartered by and for a particular faith.

[littlebillie]

"I agree that any prayer officially adopted by a troop should consider the entire troop and not just a segment of its population, with exception to troops chartered by and for a particular faith."

 

So one CO should have a prayer acceptable to its full population, and another CO doesn't have to?

 

 

Well, taht sure sounds like a "local standard" to me! :-)