Women in BSA

[sctmom]

I was debating about starting a new thread on this when I saw OGE ask Bubba some more questions on this topic.

 

Why is it okay for women to be leaders at the Cub Scout age but not once the boys become 11?

 

Why is it okay for the women to handle the paperwork but they are should not be allowed to EVER work directly with the boys?

 

I will save my commentary for later.

 

[Bob White]

Don't let it it get to you sctmom. No matter what the policies of the BSA are there will some who disagree with them. That doesn't make those individuals right.

 

The BSA is what the policies of the BSA says it is. Happily, men and women (whose values and actions reflect the values set by the BSA) are welcomed as leaders.

 

Bob White

[evmori]

Maybe I'm being stupid but where does it say a woman can't be a SM or ASM?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[nldscout]

Well then I guess the 2 very sucessful troops in our district that have females as SM's must be wrong?

 

 

I don't know anyone here that would trade in either of them. Both do a great job.

 

Paul Lamson

[NJCubScouter]

Ed says:

 

Maybe I'm being stupid but where does it say a woman can't be a SM or ASM?

 

It doesn't say it anywhere, Ed. (It did up until sometime in the 80s I guess, and there is one major chartered organization that still will not allow this in its units.)

 

This thread was apparently started because in another thread, BubbaBear questioned having women leaders working with the boys at the Boy Scout level (translation, SMs and ASMs.) I don't think his opinion is shared by many around here. I think the vast majority of male Scouters welcome good leaders regardless of gender.

 

So I don't think Sctmom will get answers to her questions from too many people, because most don't believe the premise of the questions.

[ScouterPaul]

I've just come back from a wonderful week of summer camp and am trying to catch up on the forums. I must have missed one!! I personally embrace having women as leaders in all the different levels of scouting. Sctmom having read most of your posts I would welcome you to our Troop at any time.

 

YIS

 

Paul

[eisely]

I still occasionally encounter hostility to women in scouting. Some people just don't get it.

[sctmom]

Bubbabear said he didn't want women as SM or ASM. It is okay at the Cub Scout level but after that women should be only on the committee. He later gave a few examples of bad role models. I think he was referring to all those incidents being done by women.

 

Our troop is fortunate that we have many active parents. The troop has a lot of active dads as ASM's. We also have some men whose sons are no longer in scouting. We have lots of active moms. One woman is a registered ASM. The rest of us are Committee Members, along with some of the men. On campouts I have just as much authority as the male ASM's.

 

I'm glad my son has the chance to be around men in Scouting. Especially when you consider most school teachers are women. He needs to see men in these roles. He needs to know his sweet-talking, looking-cute ways will not work with the guys. It doesn't always work with women, but he gives it a heck of a try.

 

I also feel that I can teach and encourage boys in Scouting. As in any team, each person has things they are good at and things they are not so good at. On the average many women are not effective at sounding stern. Yet, we are more effective at lending a kind ear to the scout who is missing his mom on the campout. So, we should all think about where we can truly help the troop and then do the best job we can. We shouldn't worry so much about people's gender.

 

 

Even though a part of me was interested in attending Summer Camp, I refuse to go. Many of the people who knew me from Cub Scouts were amazed that I was so adament about it. My son needs a week with "the guys". He needs to be away from Mom. He needs to be away from Grandma (the other place he stays a lot). He knows which buttons to push with us when he doesn't get his way.

 

:::stepping down off this soapbox:::::

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Last year in my old troop (of which my father is still ASM so that's how I know this), the only leaders/parents who agreed to go to summer camp were women. Not a single male leader/parent could/would go. (My father, the former SM, who used to go summer camping every year and on every other camping trip with the troop, is 76 and "retired" from overnighters a few years ago.)

 

My father thought it was a bad idea to have no male role models around. It doesn't sound like a great idea to me either. I think the boys benefit from having both male and female leaders.

[shemgren]

I was active at the Council level when National announced to Sr Level volunteers that the policy was changing concerning the gender rules in leadership positions. The BSA made this change vaoluntarily, not due to some judical pressure, but due to the lack of interested male volunteers in many areas of the country during the mid-1980's (after the uniform change and before Tiger Cubs). I got about six months heads up on the change, before it announced to general Scouting.

 

At the time, I felt it would enhance Scouting, and in the almost 20 years it has been in place, some of the best SM's and ASM's I have worked with were women. I see having women involved at all level as an asset to the Program, not a determent. Being from the "old cchool" myself, I found the change a good thing.

 

My personal view is not to discrimate due race, creed, or gender as long as the person can do the job at hand.(This message has been edited by shemgren)

[BubbaBear]

Be gentle with me, y'all!

[Double Eagle]

I've served as ASM for a woman SM. Great scouter. I can't count the number of women that serve(d) as den leaders, committee members, and staff. The OA went to inducting women in 1989. Many of my experience have shown that without the women being involved, there wouldn't be a program.

Having married a woman scouter, not the SM above, I've seen how recruiting and letting women fit into a once male dominated organization helps the entire growth and program. I think that seeing a woman going through an ordeal, summer camps, staff, and NOAC, the scouts develop a better idea of how equal the sexes can be. Isn't that part of building character. The BSA has even extended it's hand to young women in Venturing.

[Rooster7]

In the absence of willing adult males, I think they can and should be leaders. However, I do feel that Scouting is about mentoring boys so that they can become men. Consequently, all other factors being equal, I prefer to see a man in the role of SM or ASM. Of course, given the choice between a well organized, morally grounded, trained female and a unorganized, immoral, untrained male, I'll take the woman every time. Who is the better role model for your daughteryou or your wife? For meit's not about equalityit's not about being better or worseit's about recognizing differences. Diversity seems to be a popular word these days unless you're talking about the male gender. All men were once boys. Thus, men ought to know a little more about being a boy than a woman. Men are more aware of the temptations, fears, joys, and motivations that can be associated with most boys, at all ages. Again, this is not to say that a woman could not be a good SM. I am saying that a man, by virtue of the fact that he is a man, is more suited for the job.

[sctmom]

BubbaBear,

You seem to want to rule out all women having contact with boys over the age of 10 in Boy Scouting. Why? Because you have seen some women who didn't know how to act like adults? Sounds like they were irresponsible people, which is not just because they are female. Males are also guilty of that.

 

I take offense to you grouping all women in with these few you encountered. Bad SM's and ASM's can be male or female. Good SM's and ASM's can be male or female. Hopefully each troop has a good mixture of adults based on their skills, talents, and abilities, with everyone doing what they are best at for the good of the troop.

 

[BubbaBear]

Thank you Rooster7...

 

You have validated the point I was trying to bring out by making that "I don't agree with Women Scouters statement".

 

The point is this: the decision to accept females in the traditional male roles in Scouting was a compromise.

 

In reality, my wife and I had a terrible argument over this issue of women Scouters. It was she that enlightened me as to the need to fill positions not currently filled by willing and able men.

I backed down because in that light she was right, the positions need to be filled.

 

The way you stated the topic in much better than the way I stated it. In part, however, it was intended to bring about the point I mentioned above. And you did.

 

Think about this, now...do male role models in Scouting portray sexual role models as well? I grant you that in the presence of his/her "mate", they do.