Childhood

[BubbaBear]

Having read a great deal of the debate on the topics of pedophilia, homosexuality and others in these postings, something comes to mind; I hope that we adults are not encouraging the children to take a stance on these issues at their age.

Speaking for myself, I grew up in a time when adults made policy and children enjoyed life. We seriously lack that anymore.

I never had to worry about whether I should be straight or gay, if we were meeting at the Congregational Church this week or anything else that was of adult nature.

The adult leaders I grew up with knew that it was their resonsibility to make sure that we children were 1) safe, 2) provided for and 3)allowed to enjoy the simplicities of life.

Why have we lost that? Is it that we adults (and children trying to act like adults) are so self-serving that the "at all costs" tactics have to be employed?

I am not naiive, just seriously hopeful. Please don't try to tell me that we do not have the ability to think about consequences before we bastardize the innocense of programs like Scouting, all in the name of our own wants.

I respect the "cause fighters" on both sides, however I respect the children's rights more.

[sctmom]

Personally, I've never heard these topics discussed locally. I'm sure some kids are exposed to it, but I have witnessed it.

 

 

 

[BubbaBear]

sctmom, I'm sorry, as concise as your reply was I am having difficulty understanding your meaning.

You say that "you've never heard these topics discussed locally... but have witnessed it"?

[sctmom]

Oops, I meant have never witnessed it. Sorry, my mind and fingers were not communicating very well.

 

[BubbaBear]

No appolgies needed...Thanks for the clarification!

[NJCubScouter]

I have never heard anyone discuss this issue with Scouts or say that they have done so. Admittedly I am in Cub Scouts where nobody would even think of discussing this issue with the boys. Most of them (except maybe for some of the older Webelos) wouldn't understand it anyway, but the main reason is that it is just not appropriate to discuss it with them at any age. It is, as you suggest, an "adult issue." I don't think that what you are talking about is a widespread thing, though I get the impression that a couple of Scouters in the troop of the Scouting-for-all kid in California were terminated for allegedly attempting to influence boys to protest against the policy.

[Rooster7]

If you're saying, we should make every effort to preserve their innocence...that we should be careful about introducing some topics too early in life, then I agree. On the other hand, there comes a point in time where we need to educate and instruct our children before others do. It is our responsibility to teach them about morality, consequences associated with behavioral choices, and what our faith says about it.

[littlebillie]

it can get to be kind of hard to avoid when the kids see other kids at school with two moms or two dads, or kids who have been adopted by Rosie, or whatever. dad leaves the family and switches styles as part of his midlife crises.

 

when even the family dog can provide unintended exposures, it's hard to have a response for everything.

 

how is anyone dealing with gay families at the schools?

 

 

 

[sctmom]

I don't know of any gay families around my child. We do have some bi-racial families in the area. I think that raises more eyebrows from the parents than the kids. But is just as controversial for many.

 

As parents we do have to address such things with our children on an age approriate discussion level. When it is talked about depends on what your kids have seen or may see. We can't go through life thinking our children will never be exposed to beliefs different than our own.

 

Seems that anytime I'm around other Scouters, Scout Parents and Scouts we are way too busy to be discussing personal lifestyles and beliefs.

 

[Rooster7]

How is anyone dealing with gay families at the schools?

 

Not a problem at my kids' school...there are none.

 

However, consider what is on TV these days...even television programs especially designed for kids. It wasn't more than two weeks ago; Rosie had a special on Nick dealing with the gay issue. She did a real nice job of selling it to your children. I'd be surprised if any kid even understood what it was about...other than "some people don't like families with two dads". It was all very "warm" and "fuzzy". This is why I don't let my kids watch TV without controls. The powers-to-be in Hollywood are very much against what I believe in and stand for. They are extremely clever. They know how to make my beliefs appear to be hateful and ignorant. Conservative politics and social values are attacked without shame. A good example of this is TV's "West Wing". Well done. Well acted. If I were 12, I'd probably be converted to liberal politics and values within half a season. Only problem is, I'm not 12. I know more about the real world than what TV is showing me on West Wing and other shows with liberal agendas. More importantly, I know God is real. My heart goes out to those children that are being influenced by such powerful and persuasive programs. They don't tell the whole truth. They paint very ugly pictures of the people who oppose them.

 

So, yes, I agree - protect your children's innocence. Yet, when it becomes apparent that others are influencing them, then you should address it quickly and without hesitation. If you do not, others may instill values in your children, and they very well may not be the values that you treasure.

 

[BubbaBear]

Thank you all for your responses, and once again I respect them all.

 

I am not suggesting anything in particular, except that I believe that we have to be careful as to how zealous we get on either side of an issue.

 

Although you all may be able to debate this topic

with some restraint, I assure you that there is at least one person from either side (somewhere reading these postings) getting worked up to the point where he/she becomes willing to do something desperate in order make a point.

 

I don't know about you, but I have personally heard about enough of these kinds of incidences.

 

The one thing that puzzles me in this debate is this (and please don't anyone take offense, I only intend thought): How do the boys benefit by homosexuals being allowed to be scouters? Is this issue about the boys at all?

(This message has been edited by BubbaBear)

[NJCubScouter]

Rooster says:

 

It is our responsibility to teach them about morality, consequences associated with behavioral choices, and what our faith says about it.

 

Right -- but as parents, with our own children, not as Scouters, with other peoples' children. I interpreted the original post to be talking about Scouters exposing Scouts to these issues, not about parents talking to their children. Parents talking to their children is none of anybody else's business.

 

[NJCubScouter]

Although you all may be able to debate this topic

with some restraint, I assure you that there is at least one person from either side (somewhere reading these postings) getting worked up to the point where he/she becomes willing to do something desperate in order make a point.

 

"Internet rage"?

 

[BubbaBear]

No, I mean some physical stunt like Columbine.

 

Do you care to address my last question, N.J.?

[NJCubScouter]

BubbaBear replies:

 

No, I mean some physical stunt like Columbine.

 

Oh, well, I hope not, but violence against gays because of who they are would be nothing new. They have endured many beatings and worse (e.g. Matthew Shepard) because they were gay. The term "gay basher" is not just figurative.

 

As for people in this forum, well, I know which ones I find to be scary, but I'll keep that to myself.

 

Do you care to address my last question, N.J.?

 

That, I assume, being this:

 

How do the boys benefit by homosexuals being allowed to be scouters?

 

I don't think they benefit by homosexuals, as homosexuals, being leaders, nor do they benefit by heterosexuals, as heterosexuals, being leaders. They don't benefit by white people, or black people, or Jewish or Christian or Buddhist people, or tall or short people, or rich people or poor people, being leaders. They benefit by people being leaders -- people of good character, experience, leadership skills and Scouting skills. And some of those people are gay.

 

Is this issue about the boys at all?

 

I think so. When you prohibit good people from being leaders for no good reason, even a few, yes, I suppose it's going to adversly affect some boys. When the BSA gets involved in needless controversies and some organizations cut off funds and support, that also adversly affects the boys.