Gay Lifestyle vs. Good Rolemodel

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually I have been camping with 16 year old daughters, I am in a Venture Crew. We have had multiple overnights. At all times Youth Protection and Guide to Safe Scouting principles are followed.

 

Now, the question I ask isnt whether girls should camp with male heterosexuals, or boys should camp with male homosexuals or any other permutation you can think of, the issue is whether or not pedophiles should be with our children in any situation.

 

For some of the new people to this discussion, the priest who molested me and raped my brother was not a homosexual. He did not prance, he did not lisp, he was not overly macho, he was never seenin the company of anoher adult male, he liked boys he was a pedophile, a sexual predator pure and simple. I would not be afraid to have my son stay at Elton John's house, but he wouldnt get near Michael Jackson's place. Gay does not equal Pedophile. Pedophiles can portray themselves as priests, married men, or homosexual men but they are as representative of the charactor of the group's charactor where they hide (priest, married, gay) as Slick Willy is representative of all our country's presidents.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[NJCubScouter]

Rooster, I think most gays stopped calling being gay a "lifestyle" about 15-20 years ago. Try to keep up. (No insult intended.)

 

As for this:

 

In short, we're talking about a sexual perversion, not a preference. This fact should be plain for everyone to see; simply pick up a book on biology (no insult intended).

 

Well, what I assume you are getting at, is the biological fact that certain sexual acts can lead to reproduction, and certain other acts cannot. (I am going to try not to get too clinical here, but Parental Advisory is in effect.) Is every act in the "cannot" category a "perversion?" Before you answer that, consider that the sexual acts engaged in by homosexuals also are engaged in by heterosexuals, including married couples. (Though not, er, mutually, as it were.) Before the 60's/70's, most states had "sodomy" statutes that basically banned all acts in the "cannot" category, regardless of the gender and marital status (including to each other) of the participants. Some still do. But do you really believe that married couples performing these acts are "perverted?" Maybe you do, I don't know. But if you do, maybe you should be consistent and advocate that the BSA install a camera in everybody's bedroom to keep an eye on things. No? Fine. So stay out of the bedroom, literally and figuratively, of everybody -- not just the orientation that you happen to be a member of.

 

And then there is yaworski, who says:

 

I never knew a homosexual who could keep his pants zipped. Even those that were in so called "long term relationships" jumped from bed to bed so often that my head spun. The homosexual lifestyle appears to be one built around excess and bad choices.

 

Assuming that what you say is true, your atypical experience is irrelevant. BSA policy should not be built on anecdote. I have known gay people who were faithfully married, every way except legally. I have known straight people who engaged in the same antics you describe, probably to an even greater degree. It's all irrelevant. We should be looking at the individual, not the group. The current leadership of the BSA does the opposite, and says that at an openly gay person can never be a good role model. It's just wrong.

 

Finally, as to yaworski's comments about men and 16-year-old girls, and gay men and 16-year-old boys: I have been on Cub Scout family camping trips where there were 1 or 2 teenaged girls and 20, 25, 30 men (and a lot of boys and a few mothers too, of course.) That, and the combinations you describe, are all ok because BSA youth protection policy does not depend on segregation of the genders (or sexual orientations) -- except in tents, where the no-gender-mixing rule and the no adult-child-sharing rule serve the same purpose. In fact the BSA disclaims any linkage between sexual orientation and child abuse.

[yaworski]

"For some of the new people to this discussion, the priest who molested me and raped my brother was not a homosexual. He did not prance, he did not lisp, he was not overly macho, he was never seen in the company of anoher adult male, he liked boys he was a pedophile, a sexual predator pure and simple."

 

Oh boy, this tired old line. I'm sorry but he was a homosexual. He may have been a pedophile but he was a homosexual pedophile.

 

 

[yaworski]

I find it interesting that for years homosexuality was considered a mental disease but after pressure from the Hollywood crowd that was changed and now homosexuality is supposed to be considered "normal." However, rapists and murderers are now considered as victims of mental illness . Go figure.

 

 

[yaworski]

NJCubScouter (should I be surprised by anything from Jersey?) blathered:

 

"Finally, as to yaworski's comments about men and 16-year-old girls, and gay men and 16-year-old boys . . . all ok because BSA youth protection policy does not depend on segregation of the genders (or sexual orientations) . . ."

 

Just wait until your two HOMSEXUAL ASMs take Tommy Tenderbutt out into the woods and give two deep leadership a new meaning.

 

 

[yaworski]

Old Grey Eagle whined: Actually I have been camping with 16 year old daughters, I am in a Venture Crew.

 

Are you 21 years old? Heterosexual? Male?

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually since I voted for Nxon twice, so that answers the question of me being over 21.

 

The position that BSA should take is to screen for pedophiles, not homosexuals. The last case of I know of sex abuse in a scout troop was in New York by a married man. Didnt help the victim his abuser was married.

[bluecrash]

Well it is becoming QUITE obvious to me that I will in no way be able to get any type of good results from what I am reading here. I thought if there was one place I would be able to, it would be in this kind of forum, but I was obviously mistaken.

 

I know see what people in the gay community have been talking about first hand for years.

 

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ANY MORE BASHING, COMMENTS, CRITIZIMS, ETC.

 

NOTE TO MODERATOR: Please feel free to remove this survey, as i obviously made a mistake asking "Adults" and "Scout's" for opinions.

 

 

[bigstrohl]

As a hetrosexual Eagle Scout and Assistant Scoutmaster of my local Troop I find some of the comments posted very ammusing. One of my best friends, also an Eagle Scout, is a homosexual and has been one of the best and most inspiring mentors of my life, the knowlege that he has pasted on to me has been invaluable. Without him as a role model in my life I would not be the indiviual I am today, an active E.M.T with 3 Rescue Squads, Eagle Scout, Penn State student,Red Cross...the list goes on. So anybody who says that homosexuals have a bad infulence on people are clearly mistaken. And for the comment on how homosexuals "cant keep their pants zipped", obviously the individual making this remark hasnt looked at the youth of America latley. I know for a fact almost all of my friends, some fellow Eagle Scouts,and myself included, sleep around almost everychance we get. So to say that homosexuals are the only ones who "cant keep their pants zipped" is absurd. As with any "group" of people there are always the "bad apples", to brand all homosexuals as "bad" because of the actions of some is iresponsible, this is the same as saying that because one man cheats on his wife that all men will cheat on their wifes. It is a shame that many members of BSA fail to see the vast resources and excellent role models they are turning away because their "fear" of homosexuals. Just because their sexual preferances are different from the "norm" does not make them bad people.

[yaworski]

"One of my best friends, also an Eagle Scout, is a homosexual and has been one of the best and most inspiring mentors of my life, the knowlege that he has pasted on to me has been invaluable."

 

Doesn't say much for you, does it?

 

"I know for a fact almost all of my friends,

some fellow Eagle Scouts,and myself included, sleep around almost everychance we get"

 

Doesn't say much for your generation, does it?

 

"So to say that homosexuals are the only ones who 'cant keep their pants zipped' is absurd."

 

Glad to see that the education at Penn State still sucks. Go back and read what I said.

 

Bye now.

 

 

 

[yaworski]

Old Grey Eagle wimpered, "Actually since I voted for Nxon twice, so that answers the question of me being over 21. "

 

That's my point. You're well over 21, much less likely to be trying to zoom a 16 year old.

 

 

[tjhammer]

bluecrash ---

 

If you're doing some research, I encourage you to read a couple of previous threads on this board which thoroughly debated this issue. Maybe you will find additional insight here...

 

Scouting's Real Gay Policy

Now that we disagree, can we agree?

Why it's relevant...

 

It's a lot of reading, but I think you'll find both sides of the issue represented.

[bigstrohl]

Glad to see Yaworski is only mature enough to respond w/ unfounded critisism...It only goes to show that you are a closed minded individual and have nothing better to do then bash other people who do not share in your opinions.

[OldGreyEagle]

Gee Yaworksi, first you have "NJCubscouter blathered", and then insult New jersey, then you have me sucessively "whined" and "wimpered" and finally you insult Penn State. So your core tactic with those who disagree with you is to insult and belittle.

 

You know, I havent seen such debating style since the good ol' days of Dedicated Dad.

 

Wait a minute, theres an idea. Now, on scout's honor, did you used to be Dedicated Dad?

[tjhammer]

Wait a minute, theres an idea. Now, on scout's honor, did you used to be Dedicated Dad?/OGE -- Ha! I wonder how many of the rest of us were thinking something similar?