When to call the police vs. parents

[Quixote]

After reading Bob White's story concerning the boy with pot on a campout, i'm curious as to at what level do you call the authorities (legal vs. DE / Scout exec) regarding an illegal act taking place on a troop campout.

 

please, no GTSS quotes.

 

Quixote

[Mike Long]

Actually the first thing to go through my mind would be to figure out the circumstances and if something illegal happened call the police and hand the boy over.

 

Are we supposed to just call the parents and inform them their son is a felon, please deal with it?

[OldGreyEagle]

Illegal is possesson of a controlled substance, so any drugs or alchohol is illegal for a scout. A reality check is whether or not I would call the cops if I found a kid with a beer versus taking it and returning it to the parents.

 

I know its illegal, but I am not sure I would call the police if we were far (over 2 hours) from home.

But then again, maybe I should, I dont know for sure, cant wait to see what others put down.

[NJCubScouter]

This is a good question but has no easy answer -- just more questions. In the pot examople, I suspect there are some (possibly including me, I'm not sure)who would have called local police AND the parents. I guess I would always try to err on the side of delivering the boy to his parents (even if they must come to you to accept delivery) rather than to the authorities, but somewhere there is a line.

 

How about a Scout who hits another? "Just" a fight or a "scuffle"? In the words of my town's police chief, when commenting on the reluctance of school principals to call the police when a fight occurs in school, "What you call a scuffle, we call an assault." And yet I suspect most Scouters, like most school principals, would try to handle the matter "internally."

 

How about a boy who steals something from a fellow Scout while at camp or other Scout function. The "internal" Scout discipline for such an offense would be severe, probably terminal. But it is also theft, regardless of the amount. Once the item is recovered and returned to its owner, how many Scouters would call the police?

 

What role does the does the severity of the harm play in the decision? Theoretically, a violation of the law is a violation of the law, but I don't think we can ignore the difference between a "harmless" crime and one that causes actual injury or is particularly serious. For example, the boy has cocaine or heroin instead of pot. Or the Scout was not only in possession of the pot, but sold some to another Scout. (God forbid, as my mother would say.) What if, instead of just hitting the other Scout, the boy uses a tree branch and causes serious injury? Or, on the other hand, the offender "only" hit the other boy and did not intend serious injury, but the victim fell back and hit his head on a rock and now you have the paramedics on the way to deal with a life-threatening injury.

 

Does it make a difference if the law of the state treats something as a "felony" rather than a "misdemeanor"? (Or in New Jersey-speak, a "crime" rather than a "disorderly persons offense.") Possession of a small amount of pot for personal use is a d.p. in New Jersey, and technically not a "crime." In some states it would be a felony. If that matters, why does it matter?

[dan]

thank for the non answer New Jersey just like a lawyer! Only kidding, I am glad there is a lawyer here, even though you did not help with this one!

 

I would call the parents and not the police! I would give the parents a chance to deal with it before I would put the scout through the legal system.

After all I am not postive it is not Thyme! At least that would be my out for not calling the police.

Guilty unitl proved innocent, wait that is not right, is it?

[berkshirescouter]

Here is an added question; If you don't report it, at least to Council, are you libel if it happens again and someone gets hurt? I don't know but its a good YPP/Roundtable question.

 

Paul

[NJCubScouter]

dan says:

 

I would call the parents and not the police! I would give the parents a chance to deal with it before I would put the scout through the legal system.

 

That would be my preference too. And after reading my first post, I take back the statement that I would "probably" report the pot-possessing Scout to the police. I really don't know what I would do. BobWhite's solution was a good one under those circumstances. But obviously there is a line somewhere.

 

After all I am not postive it is not Thyme! At least that would be my out for not calling the police.

 

Well, I don't think that is one of your options under the facts given by BobWhite. If you are going to turn a blind eye and pretend you aren't sure what's in the baggie, then you also don't call the parents and have them drive 1,000 miles (yikes!) to get their son. You can't be sure its pot for one purpose and pretend you don't know what it is for another purpose.

 

Guilty unitl proved innocent, wait that is not right, is it?

 

Not right, but in the everyday "criminal justice system" it often does turn out to be the case, particularly for some types of crime.

[sctmom]

Let's throw another kink in this. What if it is YOUR son?

 

[Mike Long]

My son?

 

That should be irrelevent. It's a scouting event, all scouts should be treated the same.

 

The more I think about it the more torn I become.

[eisely]

This is a tough one. My inclination would be to call the parents and not the police. If the action is likely to result in further harm of a serious nature, I might call the police.

 

For example, a scuffle does not deserve a call to the police. If some boy loses it and grabs something to use as a weapon, such as a pocket knife, and actually connects with the knife, this has moved beyond a scuffle.

[LongHaul]

First let's limit this to the original parameters. A youth is found to be in possesion of some quantity of marijuana. For what ever reason or by what type of experience you know beyond a doubt it's marijuana.

 

Are we, as Adults having taken responsibility for the saftey and welfare of minors, obligated to inform the local authorities when laws are broken? Should our willingness to honor that obligattion be influenced by the severity of the local punishment? In NJ it's a d.p. in Texas it's 20 to life ( or was back in the 60's when it mattered to me) Do we have the right to decide when to follow the law? I believe the law says that if we as adults have knowledge of a crime being committed we must report it.

[evmori]

I would call the parents to come get the Scout. When they got there, I would sit down with them & the Scout and explain what the Scout did is a direct violation of BSA rules. I would tell them I am not turning their son over to the authorities this time but if this happens again, I will then call them to tell them I did. I would also suspend this Scout for 60 days.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Bob White]

A few deatils on the case in question.

1 It was a very small amount but it was definitely marijuana.

 

2 It was on a council contigency trip so it was not a scout in the troop I served at home. I had no authority to suspend him from his unit for 60 days. (Had it been a scout in the troop I served he would have had his membership revoked.)

 

3 The council was called first. They asked for my recommendation, talked with legal counsel, and then the parents were called per my recommendation.

 

4 Had the scout actually used it on the trip or sold it to another scout (we knew for a fact that had not happened), my recommendation would have been to turn him over to the local police.

 

My point in bringing this topic up was that our role as leaders roll was to intercede, to end any danger to the scout or other scouts and end the violation. We did not punish the scout, We left that to the council and the parents. We did not try to embarrass the scout, we acted quickly, quietly and confidentially (even the few other scouts who knew what was happening were instructed to only discuss it with the adult leaders).

 

If we can follow the guidelines of Youth Protection in a situation like this, then any leader can certainly handle a scout who lost a personal article with more maturity than making him sing a song to get it back.

[slontwovvy]

I would agree with Bob. If the offense is serious, such as distributing illegal drugs, there is no question that that is an offense worthy of informing the police. Smaller offenses, take them as you will. However, something that serious is beyond the bounds of parental discipline. The police deserve to be informed.

[Quixote]

I ask because like BW, i had exposure to this kind of thing except from the other side of the fence. One of the scouts in my Explorer post in the 70's had pot on a campout and the adult leaders did nothing - talk about being confused as to what is the right thing to do! Then again, the same adult leader was a regular violator of todays GTSS and YPP.

 

I know my opinion of the leader, who I previously admired, went way downhill after this event. Within the year, he was out of the Post, the guy that brought the pot on the campout and his clique within the post were gone (of their own accord) and new advisors stepped in to make the environment better in all ways. My fellow scouts proposed and passed a bylaw of the post requiring immediate expulsion for posession of drugs or alcohol on a scout activity with a report to be filed with the police dept. after the campout. We never had to use the new policy.

 

Coming from this background, I believe i would take the same position that Ed takes with the possibility depending on the severity and the attitude of the scout to recommending to the committee that the scout be expelled from the Troop.