Question for Bob White

[FScouter]

Why so quick to sue? That should be the last resort. Did you talk to the Scoutmaster over a cup of coffee? Did you ask the committee chair to put the subject on the agenda for the next committee meeting? Did you have a discussion with the chartered organization representative?

 

The court system is there to handle things when the two parties fail to solve their own issues. Our courts are jammed today because people stubbornly refuse to deal with their own messes. Take the high road and work this out with your troop. Show your Scouts that adults can be adult and work out their issues without dragging the public court system in to settle things.

[cjmiam]

Havent you read any of these posts? You ask why so quick to sue? Because she has tried- in her best spirit she has tried. Im sorry, but I dont believe using our legal system is taking the low road. I dont believe that using our system of justice sets a bad example to our Scouts. I think some individuals on this board need to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. If this happened to my kid, I would use every legal avenue possible to make things right. And maybe I wouldnt win, but at least I would know that I tried in a lawful and peaceful manner.

[nldscout]

One important thing that is missing is the troops side of the story. Everyone is assuming that what we have been told is 100% true. It would be nice to hear the total story before we condem them, advise people to sue, or take other actions. Maybe there is a troop policy that we have not been told about, as Paul Harvey says " And now for the rest of the story"...........

[dan]

And that is why we courts, to decide who has the best lawyers!

If the leaders of this troop where to follow the Scout law, they would not have to be sued!

No written policy, give the scout the money!

Sounds like a group of good boys who would have a scout sing for a lost item!

[evmori]

I gotta agree with nldscout. It seems there are extenuating circumstances here. In my Troop, the Scout account is for the Scout to use for Scouting. If the Scout transfers to another Troop, his Scout account transfers with him. If he leaves Scouting, the money stays with our Troop.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[llwyn]

As has already been said, the boy earned that money in a troop setting with his fellow scouts. It was also said that the money belongs to the troop. Close, but I'm of the notion that the troop money belongs to the chartering institution. So does the gear, the flag, the records - everything. Sorry about your son, ma'am, but my suggestion is for you and your son to strike your tents and graciously hike it down to the other troop. The money was never his to take, only to use within the context of being a member of the troop.

I suppose we should always be explicit in our by-laws in these matters but I think it is wrong to allow boys to transfer with their money. Why do most others think it is wrong not to allow it - with or without by-laws it is still contrary to the ownership of the troop and all its stuff by the chartering institution.

 

How'd I get way over here?

 

llwyn

[OldGreyEagle]

I think this is a quesiton of relativity and the notion that some of us expect the troop to "do the right thing".

 

As I understand it, the scout earned the money that is in his scout account to be used in a "scouting" manner. The scout has decided to transfer to another troop. Why shouldn't his scout account money go with him? It wasnt stated in any rules the parents received before he ammassed such a total that he couldnt transfer his account money.

 

Now, when I say "do the right thing" I realize some on here think the money should stay with the troop. I respectfully disagree but I can understand that position, its just not mine.

[nldscout]

Like I said in my earlier post, it sure would be nice to hear the troops side of the story. How many of us have told a ascout or parent something, only to have them come back in a month professing no knowledge of it. We give them calenders that shows activities and they still want to know why know one called them to tell them we were doing something.

 

[FScouter]

In my opinion the issue of who should have the money pales in comparison to the issue of Scouts suing other Scouts when they have a difference of opinion.

[Double Eagle]

Wow, this sure got some attention. Boy scouts taking a troop to court, that sure would bring a headline. So much for the volunteers of that troop. You would probably send every scouter and scout running for the hills. Many of these volunteers do the best they can, without a lot of support until one parent isn't pleased. How about amending/drafting their guidelines so that it is pretty clear. What was the purpose of the fundraising? Was it to fatten an individual account? When we plan our budget, we focus on what is to be done and then how to raise the money. I think that using the way the scouts might handle this is probably a good example. It kind of goes to what if the grubmaster has money left over? What ever happened to "scout spirit". Was transferring a forecasted move? You have an awesome fundraising for a scout to have $500 and not have a goal for it. If going to a jamboree or high adventure base, what was your plan for the money. Some troops do not have a scouts fund, and the money is shared for troop expenses. They do it without the incentive of personal gain. If you knew you were not getting the money, would you have still participated? This seems to have gotten to a "sue the troop", lose the scouts, stop fundraising, and take the money and run. Here's a question, what if your next troop does not have scout accounts? When in doubt of the right thing to do after giving everyone a shot, how about helping the program and donate "your" portion to the FOS or into the parish?(This message has been edited by Double Eagle)

[ScoutParent]

Sorry folks, no policy you haven't been told about; no loose ends to justify this leadership's actions.

 

As far as the purpose of these fundraisers...they were billed by the leadership of the troop as being entirely for the individual scout accounts. So, yes, the purpose in participating in these was to fatten his individual scout account. That is not to say that he hasn't participated faithfully every year in the Troop fundraiser. And every year it was made clear to each and every person that there is only ONE TROOP FUNDRAISER per year...all others benefit the individual scout account to be used for scouting needs (ie uniforms, camping, summer camp, gear, big trips, etc). It is offensive that you intimate that our son is only involved in areas for personal gain. Scouting is not the only service related organization he belongs to and in fact has spent a large portion of his short life improving the quality of life for others WITHOUT personal gain.

 

 

Transferring was not a forecasted move... it was a move that was determined by the fact that the troop was no longer following the boy scout methods. The committee has essentially reduced the boy leaders to puppets and gophers and our son tried to work with them to change it and hit brick walls repeatedly. Advancement procedures were not used in accordance with BSA policies...scoutmaster conferences were turned from a 10-20 minute chat with boys about goals etc into 3 meeting grilling sessions going over every item in the book--an insult to the boy's character and abilities. The planning session an spl and sm hold with the pl's was run by the sm's wife instead of the spl...the parameters of what they could plan were determined by the sm and committee. Patrols were not allowed to cook their own meals as the younger scouts "might hurt themselves on the camp stoves". Uniforms are being worn any way they please--untucked, tucked, with dog collars, with colored tshirts sticking out the sleeves, you name it...formations look like mass chaos...our son was ashamed to be seen with this group any longer and the adults were unwilling to support the boy leaders in affecting changes. Parents volunteered their skills and time and were never called on. Scouts planned meetings and activities and the sm changed them at the last minute--not due to safety or inappropriate content. Prizes were given to every boy at summer camp regardless of performance. The troop stopped receiving awards from summer camp as they had in the past.

 

Since our son has transferred, we have not said or done anything unprofessional to reflect poorly on this troop out of respect for the boys who continue on in it yet our good name has been put into question by the sm and his wife in an effort to justify their actions. So if anything has been left out, it is how far this troop has gone from Boy Scouting ideals and how many times our son worked to affect changes before he decided to transfer. Since the current leadership took over it has gone from being the best troop in town to the weakest.

[nldscout]

This sounds to me like a lot of selfserving sniveling and whineing. Oh we don't like the rules so lets move on and oh by the way lets trash the troop as we leave.

 

 

[ScoutParent]

and your responses sound quite humorous to me

[Double Eagle]

nldscout: I know your area. Kiss Camp Portaferry for me. Loved it. Former Lowville ASM, before and during the merger.

ScoutParent: It seems the tools were in place before the SM and wife were able to affect the troop. Back when you were #1 troop. What happened? Its kinda hard to see a troop fall like that. Has the committee changed from back then. What is the unit commissioner doing. If not unit, what is the ADC doing. They're there to help with troops, not the enemy. Better to not abandon the troop when all indicators say it needs help. Every troop goes through ups and downs, there is no "Norman Rockwell" troop. My advice is help the troop, the SM and scouts need it.

[cjmiam]

Double Eagle,

 

That is absolute hogwash! This parent doesnt need to worry about saving the troop. She needs to do what is in the best interest of her child. As a Scoutmaster I would never expect a parent to put the troop before what is in their childs best interest. The failing troop is NOT her problem! The Scout earned his fat money fair and square. The far-reaching implications this type of untrustworthiness extends beyond just being a matter of money. What kind of precedent does this set and what does it teach the Scouts? Work your tail off just to have someone take it all away? Make up rules as you go along? Honor, integrity and character dont really count? This is an absolutely disgusting act by the troop and they shouldnt be in the character development business!

 

cjmiam