Scoutmaster (Lousy attitude)

[bear]

I came in reading about the lousy scoutmaster with much interest, and folks got off the subject and onto patrols working independently or with the troop. I need to see some information on what do do with a scoutmaster who forgets to wear his uniform for Court of Honors, who attends roundtables maybe twice yearly, who has no idea about where each Scout stands in his rank, and who tells another leader their "standards are too high" when it comes to troop work, leadership positions and training. Also, this SM is a former eagle scout with the notion, "I'm a former eagle scout, who needs woodbadge?". Has any troop ever had leadership elections or term limits?

[OldGreyEagle]

Have you talked to the Unit Commisoner or Chartering organization representative? As I understand it, the Scoutmaster serves at the pleasure of the Charering Organizaiton.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

The "term" of any adult leader is until the unit's next recharter. (I was going to say the term is one year, but you can recharter for I think up to 16 or 18 months, presumably you would do this only once, to change your recharter month.) The chartered organization (the IH or CR) can remove a leader at any time, but at recharter time the CO "reappoints" the leader by signing the charter paperwork that has the leader's name and position on it. If the CO wants to change Scoutmasters at recharter time, the new name is included in the charter instead of the old one, and if the new SM is not already a registered leader, he/she must also submit an adult leader application which must be signed by the CC and the CR (or IH). (Actually in my council they want a new application when someone becomes SM, CM, CC or CR, even if the person is currently registered in a different position.)

 

Since the appointing authority rests in one person (or body, represented by one person), there should not be a need for "term limits." The number of times the IH or CR signs a charter with the SM's name on it, that is how many years he/she is SM. If there is an "election" for SM, it would be a vote of the CO's governing body, if that is how they make this type of decision under their by-laws.

 

Having said all that, I recall that when I was a Boy Scout, my father become Scoutmaster in the 70s through a vote of the troop committee to remove the previous SM and then another vote to install my father. (I peeked at the minutes once.) I suspect that the CO was an absentee and basically let the committee do what it wanted. I heard that the previous SM appealed this action to council and was denied, so maybe things were different then, or maybe they got the CR to sign off on the action (or maybe the CR was a member of the committee, but I know they took a vote.)

[evmori]

We have had the unfortunate experience of removing two leaders in the past (at different times). It can be ugly, but NJCubScouter posted is pretty much the way it needs to go. The COR is the one who makes the final decision.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[ScouterPaul]

Everyone has given you good info so far. Terms are one year and it is up the the CO who they want as leaders.

 

I would be interested to hear if the overall program in the troop is good or as I suspect rather inadaquate.

 

Roundtable attendance I believe is a good indicator of the leaders belief in the program.

[bear]

Thanks to all who answered the original bear message about our SM! Now, since we just rechartered in Dec., what do we do between now and then? How can we politely and respectfully bring about an attitude adjustment? Really, this SM is a nice guy but definitely has his own ideas/understanding of the BSA. Wish we could get him to woodbadge in Sept. By the way, this SM is a member of the chartered organization (church)as is the charter rep. Both men are friends and very passive about issues -- don't want to take any bulls by the horn. Wondering at this point if there are any policies about chartered organization members also leading the chartered troop. It can get somewhat territorial, I believe. Thanks in advance for any answers/help in this. All is wisdom is truly appreciated. The "bear" is a frustrated committee chair, indeed, but would like for things to work out for this SM. He just isn't plugged in to BSA guidelines, needs some Scout spirit, and could really further his training. But, he also has a full calendar with his hand in other chartered organizational ministries, which is great but this really spreads him thin.

[Bob White]

Bear,

It is supposed to be territorial. The Charter Organization owns the troop. The rep has to be a member of the organization. The more adults and families of that organization the better. Others are usually welcome but the organization does not have to extend membership beyond its own families. Sounds top me like you've met the unmovable object. I would reflect on the serenity prayer and make a decision from there.

 

Bob

 

 

[Quixote]

Bear,

 

Personally ask the SM to attend the next roundtable with you (you could do some prep work with the RT staff before hand to facilitate things).

 

See if the RT Commissioner will personally extend and invitation to RT.

 

Suggest a new policy of ALL members (including you) be retrained every X years. A good point to make is that they recently redid all the training (BW can help more with this though).

 

Volunteer to take on some of the stuff that he isn't doing.

 

$.02

 

YIS

Quixote

[OldGreyEagle]

Bear, your last posting caught my eye, you said of the SM "But, he also has a full calendar with his hand in other chartered organizational ministries, which is great but this really spreads him thin". Perhaps the SM would welcome a reduciton is responsibilities. If he is that spread out, maybe an "Executive ASM" position could be created, a trained ASM who could help him out and perhaps be groomed to replace the SM. And when I say "replace" the scoutmaster, I dont mean he is gone, out the door never to be seen again, maybe as Scoutmaster Emeritus (from Follow Me Boys). That way he can gradually reduce his role with dignity and honor and the troop can get on track

[Quixote]

OGE - are you just outside Allentown?

[OldGreyEagle]

I know how parochial this area is, and I would hate to think I was becomming as cloistered as a native, but I prefer to think of myself as in bethlehem as opposed to being just out of Allentown... Where are you?

[bear]

Dear Everyone -- Again I thank you for your answers, all great! Yes, I have relieved the SM of many, many duties and not only act as CC to the troop but ASM. I enjoy wearing both hats but sometimes think it can be a bit too much. By taking on some of the SMs roles, are we "spoon-feeding" him? After all, being a SM is just as much as commitment as being a CC or any other leader in the troop. I say, if the guy wants to be the SM, then be the SM! So you can see the frustration that goes back and forth with us (committee & ASMs). He is busy -- we cut him slack and take on some of his tasks; he is still busy, but now we have some of our own tasks to take on; he is busier still and is no longer connected with the Scouts and no longer knows their ranks, camping experiences, etc. I mean, why even be a SM if you can't give it 100%? Thanks for your answers. I am learning so much and am glad I have found this website!

[BubbaBear]

Bear...I am assuming that you ARE a Woodbadge Bear???If so, I hold you in highest esteem! (lol)

 

First, a kinda light hearted story. A troop I was in had an ASM that the boys really did not like. The adults kinda tolerated him because ASM's were needed.The boys found a way to get him to leave after many subtle hints (not condoned by the adults). At summer camp one year, they all "washed his tent" in the middle of the night. He left the next day. We had a heck of a mess with that one as you can imagine!

 

I like the idea of the committe requiring "continuing training" for its leaders. All of you all should abide by it also, that way it is impartial. I had an ASM (retired military person) that was too rigid with the boys...he is wonderful as a roundtable commissioner. He still insists that "his place is with the boys". He is an Eagle Scout as well, and he refuses to go to training as well.

 

I also agree that the chartering organization is in charge...maybe you should have a heart-to-heart with the org executive??

[yaworski]

" had an ASM (retired military person) that was too rigid with the boys."

 

Did he require them to be quiet while he spoke, keep their shirts tucked in and wear their caps forward?

 

As for needing to wait for rechartering, I don't think that you do. All leaders serve at the pleasure of the CO. If the leader displeases the CO, good bye.

 

 

[BubbaBear]

No actually, I was the one who did that...I'm former military myself. I believe that boys need to be boys. Scouting is not a military atmosphere, unless it is in a military atmosphere. I'm talking here about rigidity, i.e. NO flexibility.

And yeah, come to think of it, you are right, all of us serve to the pleasure or displeasure of the CO. Problem is that with the "ownership" of a scouting unit comes mismanagement. Spreading themselves thin is easy to do as all of us scouters know all too well. How many CORs even show their faces at troop or committee meetings for that matter?