What do you wish they woulda told you in training?

[SagerScout]

This is a new thread spurred by the discussion elsewhere in which WoodBadgeEagle was trying to figure out something that perhaps should have been covered in training.

 

I have taken Scoutmaster Fundamentals, which as I recall was a full classroom Saturday followed by an evening session and an overnighter. Had a great time. Nothing like camping out, eating a delicious foil-packet meal,and finishing a day with Dutch oven cobbler. One of the Eagle scouts in my patrol successfully taught me how to tie a bowline, not a mean accomplishment for either of us. But...

 

What else did I learn?

 

I got the whole boy-led thing. All good there. Some basic scout skills were taught. That was fun, although mostly a review except for the bowline (I'm knot-impaired).

 

What confused me was how on earth a teen boy could possibly invent a meeting structure and meeting activities that would make for mostly interesting meetings. I knew it wasn't happening in the troop my son was in - that's why I was in training in the first place. As a corporate trainer, one of my Top 10 hits was a session on "Running Effective Meetings," so I had some background. Number one in running a meeting is to have a goal and a plan - and this was almost always lacking in the troop meetings we attended.

 

As an GS leader (Brownie and young- Jr. at the time), I was familiar with the process of establishing an outline for a program. And I knew that it wasn't something that everyone can "just do" as I have helped other leaders figure it out. ADULT leaders....

 

I was trying to pay close attention in my training - and I was an honor student in college - but if they presented the resource "Troop Program Features," I missed it entirely. IMO, this tool makes boy-led success far more likely. Our SPL - a 16 year old Star scout saw the value in it immediately and was thrilled to have it. After several months of doing program planning "from scratch" with his PLs he was worn out, although he has done a great job. He has bags of 4H leadership experience and a total of about 12 months of PL experience in different troops, so he's got a good grip on what's needed to make things go. Most kids don't.

 

I just looked over the junior leader training curriculum and I think I see some of the same deficiencies that I saw in my SMFun class. It seems to me we want to do fun team-building exercises with our junior leaders but not give them the nuts and bolts of what's available to them to help with their program. I'm no opponent of team-building, I've taught many sessions myself, and I love watching a group problem-solving team come together. But don't make the meetings, where the rubber really meets the road as far as retention goes, harder than they have to be!

 

[SagerScout]

And another thing:

 

Something else I feel they should have covered better in training: how to organize yourself as a SM so that advancements and merit badges don't get lost in the shuffle. Hasn't happened to me, yet, but the biggest reason that the SPL mentioned above is still a Star scout is that his former Scoutmaster took all copies of his blue cards for two completed Eagle-required badges - and lost them, along with some for his two brothers as well. Yes, the scouts should have kept a copy and I'm sure it will never happen to them again. But that's really not an excuse for the SM losing items representing so much labor for these kids. Those two badges should be all that stand between him and Life Scout Status, because I can't see anyone in our troop having any problem signing off on THIS kids' Scout Spirit and leadership items.

 

Don't know about BSA curriculum - I recall nothing at all presented about the details of recordkeeping in my class - but in the GS Leadership Mod 1, the obvious is stated: Get a notebook, put THESE ITEMS in it. Organize it THIS WAY, or another way if it suits you better. Put a zipper pocket in it for things you really don't want to lose. Yes, you'd like to think that grown women and men could figure this out but experience shows that you'd be wrong in many cases.

[Bob White]

Hi Sager,

 

Your right about some of the deficiences of Scoutmaster Fundamentals. For that reason it was replaced as of August of 2001 with a 90 minuteNew Leader essentials, a 7 1/2 hour course called Scoutmaster/Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, a weekend course Introduction to Outdoor Skills, and the 3 hour Troop Committee Challenge. By separating out the two groups it gives more time to spend on each.

 

Troop Program Features was not in print when the SMF syllabus was written. Another book call Woods Wisdom was being used at the time. Your local training team should have substituted the new resources for the old. That was the biggest weakness of SMF, the syllabus relied heavily on the knowledge and teaching skill of each local training team. The quality of those teams very radically throughout the country.

 

The new syllabus makes greater use of a structured presentation utilizing PowerPoint presentations and video tape to a far greater degree. This helps to insure more consistant information sharing throughout the nation.

 

Most paper work, except for program planning is in the Committee training, because that is who should be doing it.

 

The biggest problem is still the time restraint. 7 1/2 hours is not enough time to cover everything. However as a whole, adults won't come in large numbers to longer training.

 

The plan is that if we (District and Council training teams) can get leaders; in the training door, give them usefull info to get them started, then they will; read the books, attend Roundtables, go to Wood Badge, ask questions....

 

Many do.. but many don't. Far too many leaders go to basic training once in their career and say "I am trained so what I do must be right."

 

As for the Junior Leader Training, that to is in the process of being revised. The first step is done. NEW Patrol Leader and Senior Patrol Leader handbooks are now available through your Council Service Center. National is in the process of reviewing and restructuring junior leader training at the Troop, Council and National level.

 

One thing you'll learn is that there really isn't a problem or question that hasn't already been addressed in at least one BSA printed resource. Most things are covered in the boys handbooks, the adult leader handbooks, the Guide to Safe Scouting, the insignia guide and the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual.

 

A complete list of the print and video resources of the BSA (Scouting Resource Library, I beleive is the name)is available from your council service center or throuh your scouting catalog, I think it's $1 or $2.

 

Hope this helps

Bob

[SagerScout]

Thanks for your input, I guess I now need to make some time to go back and try that training again and see if anything improved. Sigh. It wasn't that long ago that I took the "old" training. Oh well. As I said I had lots of fun anyway, it wasn't total torture. Ok, some of it was but just because when I'm in the learning mode I want something in front of me to learn. There was quite a bit of jawing without much content, as I recall. But I was in good company and as I said the food was great.

 

Here's another issue that may be of general interest to the board: I'm finding it difficult to get the training I need from my local council at the time I need it. For instance, our troop needs Safety Afloat training but it isn't scheduled at this time and no one offers any idea of when it might be scheduled. My son would like to go to Cedar Badge but it was full as of 4 months before the course date, and it's only offered once a year. So any Junior Leader Training for our troop is going to have to come from me and the SM. Fine, but remember we're the ones who didn't get good training ourselves. The blind leading the blind. Except I can at least perceive light and dark, but not any thanks to the BSA training - it's because of Girl Scouting (I'm an apprentice trainer for them, although they also have significant curriculum deficiencies so I'm not holding them up as perfect) and also my work experiences.

 

The training schedule or lack of one makes it especially difficult to establish a new troop.

[Bob White]

Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense are generally offered each week of summer camp.

 

Those courses are not the responsibility of the District or Council Training Committees in most councils.

 

My advice is to contact your council's professional responsible for summer camp and obtain contact information on individuals who are approved Aquatics Counselors or others who are authorized by the council to approve these two certifications. Call them and arrange a time they can meet with your leaders to do the training. Both can be covered in 60 to 90 minutes.

 

you might even ask your Roundtable Commissioner to do it as a RT program.

 

Best of Luck,

Bob

[NJCubScouter]

Just my opinion here, but if someone lost a boy's advancement records, it was because they were careless. Maybe they are always careless with paperwork, maybe they were just distracted at that moment and misplaced them. Maybe they also tend to lose their personal financial papers, papers from work, etc., or maybe they are good about keeping papers that are important to them but bad at caring for things that impact on others. Either way, I doubt very much that sitting in a training course for three hours, or three weeks, is going to change whatever it is that caused the person to lose the papers. You can tell the guy all day about notebooks and zippered pouches and that is not going to stop a blue card from getting stuck between two other unrelated pieces of paper, or falling off the car dashboard out the open car door, or whatever other dire fate befell these blue cards.

 

I speak as someone who has lost a piece of paper or two or... in his lifetime. But I have taught myself to put things in folders and subfolders and to at least put all Scout-related stuff in one box so that at least I know it's in a defined area. Unfortunately, my Cubmaster is 10 times worse than I am, some things have gone into a black hole somewhere in his home and have never emerged. (And yes, I know that committee members are supposed to be handling the paperwork, unfortunately we are have a shortage of those. Committee members, that is, not paperwork, which is always in ample supply.)

[Mike Long]

I too am having problems getting the training we need. I have a bunch of new leaders that want to be trained but the courses aren't being offered in any sort of schedule. When called the council tells us to check the website. It seems as if the classes just magicly appear on the council website and if you aren't watching for them you miss out.

 

I've found out that some of my methods were wrong and some blatently against Scout policy. And these were all things other Scouters said were correct. I was rather horrified to discover how wrong I was.

 

I don't want to perpetuate the cycle of misinformation.

[Bob White]

Mike,

 

You raise one the most frustrating parts of training. Remember that the council and district training teams are made of volunteers just like the units. In fact many trainers are also unit volunteers. The best way to get us district and council folks to get the job done (if it's not getting done) is to get your Charter Organization Rep to a District meeting and say "when can we expect this to happen" (just seeing a COR there will probably shock them into action)

 

If your COR won't go then you go. Better yet get a group of scouters together and call the District Training Chair and say "we are ready send a team, or give us a syllabus, video and handouts". As you see I have as little sympathy for a trainer that won't train as I do for a leader who won't go to training.

 

As Red Green would say "I'm Pullin for ya, Remember we're all in this together".

 

Bob White

(newly appointed) District Training Coordinator

 

PS,

Beginning in May our district has 3 training sessions going on in our District each month for the next 12 months.

[SagerScout]

NJ - I absolutely agree that the lost records reflect a careless SM. I am one of the most paperwork impaired people on the planet, havign personally managed to lose several months worth of business bank statements right before tax season. My CPA is having kittens.

 

The goal of the specific instruction is to help people like me. The congenitally organized don't need it anyway. Those who have figured out a personal system don't need it - you, for example. Sounds like you worked out something that works for yourself - ONE box to rummage through. Fine. But the 10 minutes that was spent telling me to Get a Notebook and Keep it with you have saved me immense trouble. I hate to admit that I would probably not have figured that out independently for quite a while. It took me close to a year to catch on to making the girls a folder file for their personal information distribution. I'm just paperwork impaired, and I've had to learn to love myself anyway.

 

Your disastrously disorganized cubmaster MAY have benefitted (perhaps...) from someone stating the obvious: Hey, guys, the paperwork will drown you if you don't keep it under control.... Get a file box with a handle to take to meetings and NEVER put anything Scouting related anywhere else....

 

I don't propose taking a lot of time for this, I just think it might help some folks. Troop Committee or not, the SM still gets handed a lot of stuff and if he doesn't lateral it off immediately things can get lost.

[evmori]

All the training in the world will not eliminate being careless. Hopefully what it will do is stress the importance of keeping accurate records & keepin them in a safe place. In my Troop, my Advancement Chairman handles all the paperwork for advancement. He uses Troopmaster & I also have it loaded on my PC. When he makes changes, he gives me the disk & I update my version. This way, we have two current & updated copies.

 

What I wish training would cover is dealing with the parents who want their son's to be "given" advancements just because they were there. This is probably the most frustrating part of Scouting I have encountered.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1(This message has been edited by evmori)

[NJCubScouter]

Ed Mori says:

 

What I wish training would cover is dealing with the parents who want their son's to be "given" advancements just because they were there. This is probably the most frustrating part of Scouting I have encountered.

 

I agree with that, and I would broaden it to include "dealing with (other) parents in general," with specific mention of advancement and perhaps some other specific areas. When I attended Basic Cub Leader Training (under the old training continuum), we heard a lot about the "ages and stages" of boys, and that is very important and was presented well, but a few words about those "adult behavior issues" would have been helpful as well. (Topic A, advancement, Topic B, Pinewood Derby!, subtitled, How to Deal with 40-Year-Old Men Who Act Like 9-Year-Old Boys.)

[dan]

i wish i was taught that there is no need to raise your voice to a Scout.

 

i wish that i was taught much much more about the boy run troop. They tried to show it but it did not come across as it should have.

 

And i hope i never have to watch the guide to safe scouting video one more time (seen the same one 4 times)

[jmcquillan]

What do you wish they woulda told you in training?

 

Well, for one thing, I really wish they would have defined that "one hour a week" thing better........