Weekender Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 I only have sons, but thought that folks with daughters might be interested in this organization. http://www.afa.net/activism/aa082001.asp http://www.ahgonline.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Outstanding. My wife and I were looking for an organization for our daughter. This may be it. We have lots of time...she's only three, but we've already decided against the GSUSA. We don't like their political spin. I will definitely investigate this organization. On the surface, it sounds great. Thanks for the links.(This message has been edited by Rooster7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Rooster says: We don't like the GSUSA's political spin. Yeah, I always thought those Thin Mints were curved to the left a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 NJ, I appreciate the humor. For both our sakes, I'll keep my tongue in check on this one. Suffice it to say, I did appreciate the joke. (This message has been edited by Rooster7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreaScouter Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 OK, here's one for you conspiracy theorists: My daughter's a Girl Scout in our Air Force community here in Korea, and when we unboxed the cookies for the annual sale, I noticed that many of the cookies have different names than what we were used to in the U.S. Best example: the Samoas are not called Samoas when they're shipped here; they're called "Caramel Delites". Could it be political correctness, to avoid offending Pacific Islanders of Samoan descent? More political spin, Rooster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slontwovvy Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 I don't know, the way I get them they're caramel delites too. According to the statistics I've seen, this growing trend against the girl scouts seems to be growing. Too many parents are becoming concerned with the girl scouts 'modern' views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 There are 2 different bakers that make Girl Scout Cookies. I bought Samoas in one county, drove 10 minutes into another county and bought Carmel Delights. It just depends on if you got them from ABC Bakers or Little Brownie Bakers (I think those are the right names). Each council makes it own choice of which baker to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Interesting how they say the group honors "Judeo-Christian values" yet they don't understand why they can't sing songs about Jesus. I think the more accurate statement is "Christian values". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 The acceptance and celebration of one faith, does not mean that other faiths must be excluded or dishonored. Christians can just as easily sing a song about Moses. However, if they chose to sing a song about Jesus, it would not be to incite or alienate others (Jewish or otherwise). It would be to honor God per their own faith. Likewise, if Jews chose to sing a song about King David, I doubt many Christians would be offended. I don't understand why a growing number of folks in our country feel that an open expression of one's faith, devalues the faith of others. This is a false premise. It is a major reason why so many want to remove religion from the public square. I vehemently disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 But most people would expect the Jewish child to also sing "Jesus Loves Me". This is a serious problem, at least here in the south, that the respect for anything other than "MY Christianity" is wrong. I do think what this people are doing is great. Yet I also think people are overreacting to the fact you don't have to say GOD in the Girl Scout pledge, they didn't take the word out! Girl Scouting USA was NOT founded on religion. It was founded to help girls be the best they can be and help them try non-traditional activities for girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Long Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Thanks Weekender, options are always helpful. Especially in that my daughter is due in September. Interesting, but after looking at their website (Which in my opinion as a web user interface and content specialist is woefully lacking in content.) it still leaves me asking, What do they actually do? What is their structure? It just looks like a club. I would like to see details regarding program features. Is there a form of advancement? What are the goals of the organization? Yes I read the site but what they posted was very vague to me. "Traditional Judeo-Christian Values" can mean anything anymore as can "Traditional Troop structure". I'm still not ruling out the Girl Scouts. Yes I have problems with youth organizations pushing political stances through kids (and you can apply that to all youth organzations BSA included depending on what side of the fence you are on) but as you all well know each Troop is different and you can always find a unit that agrees with your personal positions regardless of what the national organization thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 sctmom, Given the situation you described (people forcing non-Christians to sing songs about Jesus or be alienated) I'd have to agree. However, that appears to be one extreme end of the controversy. The other end is to demand that folks not sing about their God (or that they must only sing certain songs). That situation is just as wrong. The middle ground is to let folks sing the songs of their faith without forcing others to join or listen (There's more room for discussion in this area, but I'm not going there). As in all groups, individuals can and will abuse privileges. Each troop's leadership needs to evaluate if this is occurring. However, I do not believe the solution is to make everyone recognize a generic god. In fact, this would be blasphemy in some religions. My God demands that I recognize him by name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Rooster, I agree. I just think these folks need to be clear about being a Christian organization, not a Judeo-Christian organization. Unfortunately there are some people out there who feel they must convert everyone, including other people's children, to Christianity. Religion is not one of the founding principles of Girl Scouting, from what I've read. If someone is looking for a religion based organization for their child, then GSUSA isn't it. GSUSA is also very careful about discussing sexual issues with the girls. Even though some of the badges they can do lead into those conversations, the leaders are to notify the parents in writing in advance if that will be discussed in any way, shape or form. Some parents prefer to not have someone else talk to their young daughter about the facts of life. I fully agree, it should be the parents, so they can impress their values on their daughter. Mike, GSUSA does not have a form of advancement, like the ranks in BSA. The girls can earn badges and other forms of recognition. Juniors earn Signs -- must complete certain badges in one area and do some other related activities. Cadettes and Seniors earn IPP (interest projects). Each one is very involved -- includes learning skills, a requirement about technology related to the badge, related community service, and related career exploration. There are not ranks like Second Class and First Class. They can earn the Bronze, Silver or Gold award -- depending on their age (Junior, Cadette, Senior). These take a lot of planning and work from the girls. Each troop can be different based on what the girls want to do. The focus is leadership and community service by the girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekender Posted April 22, 2002 Author Share Posted April 22, 2002 I don't want it to look like I threw this cat in the middle of a dog show and just stepped back to see what happens. I knew in posting this that there would be strong opinions on both sides. My point in bringing this organization to your attention was not necessarily to promote it (I don't know enough about it for that) but being a christian myself I felt it might be worth investigation by those of you who have daughters and would prefer a christian base in their youth organization. As for the girl scouts, they have never, to my knowledge, claimed to be religeously grounded (As the BSA has). That is their choice. Personally though, I find that the basis for building character MUST be an unchageing, unchangable set of moral standards that do not necessarily conform to societal norms but require an individual to understand that there is absolute truth and that there is right and wrong and that sometimes society is wrong. Short of there being a living God there can be no such standard. If we make the rules at our level then the rules are subject to change and interpretation. So, the Heritage Girls may be a good thing (they seem to be on the surface) or they may be an ill-conceived concept. I think they are trying to do something good and I applaud their effort. I hope they turn out to be what they are trying to be. As for Christianity, I refer you to Pascal's wager: If I am wrong then I have lived my life based on a book that teaches love, stiving to do things that improve the lives of others, I have spent my time on this earth involved in service and when I am gone I will turn to dust and all that will remain is the short lived memory of the good works I have done. If I'm wrong then I am no worse off. But what if you're wrong? If you live your life as though there is no God...you better pray that you're right. Just so no one can say that they never knew...Jesus is the son of God, he came to earth to pay for your sins and mine, he died on a cross at Golgotha and on the third day he was raised back to life. He now sits at the right hand of God the Father. Salvation is yours for the asking. Jesus said he is the way the truth and the life and that no one comes to the father except through him. He also said that if you deny Him now he will deny you later. If I'm wrong...no harm done. If you're wrong it's eternity in the smoking section. Isn't it worth finding out? Ask God to reveal himself to you. Ask him for a glimpse of who he is. He IS waiting for you. May God bless you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2 Posted April 22, 2002 Share Posted April 22, 2002 Following a sincere moment of silence... Listened to a presentation at last summer's Roundtable by one of the founders of this AHG program (started in northern Cincinnati I think?) While only watching from a distance (no daughters!) IMHO they sounded like the beginnings of an outfit that we as Scouters would feel right at home with. To the point that you might find yourself welcomed as an external resource... Enough said lest we begin to split hairs over details! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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