BSA Membership dropping for first time since Vietnam

[k9gold-scout]

Here in Los Angeles I am seeing a greater ammount of latinos either joining existing troops or starting their own. The more new scouts that a willing to live by the oath and law the stronger we will be. Many scout books are already printed both in english and spanish and our local offices have bi-lingual people.

[LongHaul]

eisely,

You said; Current demographic projections indicate that California will be majority latino in a few years. Scouting should find a way to make itself more interesting and relevant to these people. The conservative values of scouting are quite compatible with the world view of latinos and immigrants in general.

 

Make itself more interesting and relevant how? Are you suggesting altering a National program to attract specific target groups? Does Scouting want to change who and what it is to attract new boys?

 

[KoreaScouter]

The membership drop is in the annual reports, and is broken out as such in the traditional programs, although LFL is increasing...but as someone wiser than me said, "that ain't Scouting". What's harder to find is which Councils/Districts saw the decrease, or increase. A 1 percent drop has to mean that some areas rose, and some areas dropped more. Where? Why? A very common fallacy when analyzing numbers is equating correlation with causation - fight the impulse. We gotta ensure the program remains relevant to boys without losing the things that makes Scouting...Scouting. That's a tall order, but there are Professional Scouters in Irving, TX who are being paid to figure that out, communicate it to us, and reach the public too.

 

The notion that Black, Asian, Hispanic, urban kids don't like Scouting is a load of crap. I've got all of the above in my troop, and if you were blind, you'd never know who was who. They all have a fabulous time and are with the program. If you make Scouting too much like the Boys/Girls' Clubs to cater to what you think urban kids want, we'll lose what makes us unique. Let's stick to the program. As it is, and presented properly to the families regardless of ethnicity, it'll stand on it's own. Not all minorities are interested in Scouting, but you know what? Most of the white kids in my neighborhood even back then weren't either. So what.

 

The gay thing again?! Nobody except the boys who killed Matthew Shephard really know why they did it or why they thought it was okay. And, there is no guarantee that staying in Scouting and earning your Eagle will inoculate you from negative peer pressure and bad decisions...although that's the way to bet. If kids are taught respect for life, and they embrace it, they won't kill anything for fun, even an ant. TJ, I think you either have an agenda, or you're a huge fan of Oliver Stone.

 

Bob White, please help me out here on two counts, the gay policy and leader training, you have all these things memorized. I'm very familiar with the BSA policy on avowed homosexuals serving as leaders. As I look at the youth application, though, I don't see any exclusionary language regarding homosexuality. Is it because we don't collectively think an 11-year old boy has any idea what his sexual preference is, or does BSA in fact have a national policy that prohibits homosexual Scouts? What do you do if a 14- or 16-year old Scout tells you during a conference he thinks he may be gay? On leader training, why isn't it all absolutely mandatory for everyone? In the eyes of an individual Scout, BSA is his troop, not National-level policies and standards. If his untrained troop leader dorks it up, it doesn't matter how many glossy, color-coded multi-media binders are on the shelf in Irving, 'cuz his Scoutmaster never saw or heard any of it and the Scout's out the door. In my opinion, our volunteer leaders have way too little required training, too little supervision, and too much poetic license. Just read some of the posts on our own threads...some leaders use the patrol method, and some don't. Some use new Scout patrols, and some don't. Some wear the uniform, and some don't. Some have just Fast Start/YP after a long time in the program, and some are Wood Badgers with just a year or so in. Some file Tour Permits and Money-Earning Applications, and some...you get the point. Why is this? Maybe I'll know all these things after Wood Badge next month!

 

 

[slontwovvy]

Longhaul--

 

Latinos are already the majority in California. I think they announced it a couple of years ago.

[Rooster7]

As for Scouting banning liars, etc... you are wrong. There's no specific national policy that automatically rejects members who lie or steal. The expulsion of those members is left up to the local parents, leaders and CO to be handled on a case by case basis, factoring all the circumstances.

 

Hmmm...This is enlightening! It explains why a former Boy Scout and President of this country had to redefine the word "IS" for the rest of us. In fact, going by his definition of "sexual relations", homosexuals don't even have sex. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

Frankly, I don't care about the numbers. If BSA remains the program it IS, and the numbers go down to 60 (the number of boys in my sons' troop), I'll be just as happy. My sons are being taught the values that made this country strong. My sons are a part of an elite group that believes in character over politics. If they standout more and more as the exception, so be it.

 

[evmori]

I gotta agree with Rooster7. If the program starts to get watered down just to keep the numbers up, then the program suffers.

 

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Mike Long]

Scouting is relevant to every American.

 

I would think that the outdoor program would be especially exiting to Latino boys as their forefathers explored this entire hemisphere.

[LongHaul]

KoreaScouter,

Requiring training beyond Fast Start to be a Scoutmaster would result in fewer Scoutmasters and thus fewer troops so that won't happen. I took Basic Leaders Training in 1970, it was three weekends Friday evening till noon Sunday. Then we had CornerStone, Bob White remembers this one he has refered to it, it was seven sesions. Then it went to one evening, one full day and one outdoor weekend. Then it went to two evenings and one outdoor weekend. A few years ago Chicago Area Council went to a one weekend Friday evening till Sunday afternoon, promoted as "Come out for one weekend go home with a trained patch" No kidding. Leaders weren't taking training so who ever has the power to decide these things watered the course to fit the time leaders were willing to invest. Now we are back to the modular concept. Take New Leader Essentials (2 hrs.) and which ever specific training you require, for Scoutmasters this is three 2.5 hr class room sessions. Outdoor Leaders Training is sperate and runs Friday evening till 2:30 Sunday afternoon. One Evening (New Leader Esentials) One Full Day (Scoutmaster Specific) One Outdoor Weekend (Outdoor Leaders Training) We keep going in circles trying to get people to take training but they just won't, I wish I knew an answer. So many people have pointed out that poor training equals poor leadership equals poor program equals poor youth participation.

On the Gay Youth issue it is not specifically addressed, religious duty is but not the Gay issue. BUT I was in our Scout shop last week and they were told that a new Advancement Committee Guide and Troop Advancement Guidelines were supposed to be out come the end of May. How accurate this is I don't know but I wouldn't be suprised if sexual orientaion is mentioned. In the Current Insignia Guide Clause 9. has been put into bold type All badges and insignia shall remain the property of the Boy Scouts of America subject to recall for cause by the Corporation or its duly authorized representatives. It's been there but not in bold type. Then the Gay issue was the first time I heard of a boy being stripped of a rank after he's earned it.

[Chippewa29]

I don't know about the gay issue, because I've never heard it discussed by anyone other than lifers. However, I would have to agree with the statement made earlier that stated parents prefer youth sports to the Boy Scouts. Saying your son is an athlete and on a travel hockey or soccer team is much more "glamourous" than saying he is a Boy Scout. If people remember correctly, the BSA's membership dropped sharply in the 1970's, when fallout from Vietnam (or whatever other reason) turned off a good chunk of that generation to Scouting. Who are the parents now? That generation. The Boy Scouts were definitely not an "in" thing at that time, so they don't have the fond memories or good reputation that I grew up with (in the 80's).

[eisely]

Responding to some points made since my last post re minorities and scouting...

 

It is not that non-caucasion youth cannot or will not enjoy scouting. I have known scouts of different backgrounds who have all enjoyed scouting.

 

The program should not be changed. It needs better marketing. Face it, outdoor sports are generally perceived as something that white folks do. Just look at the ads on TV promoting outdoor related themes. How many black or latino faces do you see in that advertising.

 

What might be effective would be to not sign boys up for scouting before anything else happens, but to get them on an outing in a recruitment mode. Show them the fun of being outdoors, and that scouting is not sissy stuff. Certainly parents of these boys would probably love to get their boys into the program, but it has to be conveniently available and presented in an appealing way.

[tjhammer]

While I agree with Bob White that Scouting is only as good as your last meeting or campout, I also want to second the idea of cozying up to Madison Avenue. BSA Inc. has practically no public relations or marketing skills... it's as if they've been stuck in pre-1960's ways of promoting their organization (and have ignored, for the most part, the mass media age). For the life of me I have never figured out why we didn't really use our resources to package high-impact and repetitive "spins". If I ever donate a million bucks to Scouting, I think I'd be torn between earmarking in for perpetual camperships or for marketing.

 

When you've had the likes of Spielberg as an Eagle and national resource (though hes stepped down while he waits for the BSA to correct its gay ban) it just seems like you've not been using your resources as well as you could to enhance the image of Scouting. Mass corporations have used product placement in movies for years, but BSA has been content to allow Hollywood to define Scouting characters in its own way, or not at all (with the exception of Spielberg's Indiana Jones, Scouting characters are rarely flattering). Is a forty year old Follow Me Boys (whose rare Disney replays still cause media desperate Scouters to huddle to Nick at Night just to catch a glimpse of something resembling Scouting) really the best we can do to present the real value of Scouting?

 

Weve done a few decent TV spots and magazine ads (way too few, given our resources), but theyve not gotten much play time. I also suppose that the Madison Avenue approach is made difficult because Scouting would still most likely have to pay for its Super Bowl slot or magazine ad... Scouting's not as politically correct as the Boys Club, etc, and so media is less likely to be comped to Scouting as a PSA.

 

[sctmom]

I agree with Eisely that it's not about changing the program for the minorities, it's about convincing them the program is for them as well.

 

A year or so ago I saw an article about a town around Kentucky or Tennessee that had a large population of Asians. The article touched on how strong Scouting was in that community. That Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting taught the type of patriotism and values of the Asian familes. They showed a Cub Scout den that was large and was 100% Asian descendent.

 

I had some black boys in my Webelos den these past couple of years. The families were involved in church and seemed to have very high values. For some reason they continued to see Scouting as "just another after school activity". They couldn't see the importance of camping or even a day hike. It just wasn't important to them. The boys wanted to camp but the parents were never willing to make the sacrifice to take them (with at least 8 different chances to go in about 1 year). They never even visited a Boy Scout troop. The parents said the kids weren't interested anymore --- this would be the same kids who others commented on how excited these boys were.

 

 

[sctmom]

Here is a comparison of BSA to a few other youth activities. This may mean nothing or it may mean something. Just food for thought.

 

BSA (year 2000) youth 3,351,969

Adults 1,209,077

 

GSUSA (current website) youth 2,800,000

Adults 942,000

 

Campfire USA (current website) 650,000 youth

(some of this is after-school type programs not traditional clubs that are like Scouting)

 

YMCA 17.9 million men, women, and children

This includes everything from sports to art classes

 

Organized Sports

Out of 48,374,000 youth (estimate of 1995) the following

Agency Sponsored (Little League) 21,768,300

Rec Dept sponsored 14,512,200

Intramural 4,837,400

Interscholastic 5,804,000

Club sports (gymnastics, swimming) 2,418,700

(many youth participate in more than one of the above)

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I was a bit surprised to read that perhaps parents see sports as a more favored activity than Scouting. I dont question that some parents think this way, I just dont understand it. Perhaps a boy is on a traveling soccer or hockey team, maybe he will be one of the lucky few to get an athletic scholarship and perhaps one of the extremely very few who get to make a living as a pro athlete.

 

However, for most of the teen age atheletes, when they are 30 and discussing past acomplishments, being a center on a traveling hockey team ( or sport of your choice) will pale next to being able to say, I am an Eagle Scout.

 

Isnt being an Eagle Scout a big plus on a college application and on job applications? At least for entry level positions where the difference of who gets the job may other wise rest on the shiniest shoes or some other trifle?

 

Now I am admittedly prejudiced, but when I say my son is an Eagle, I am dang proud. Athletic glory will come and go, but my boy will always be an Eagle.

[evmori]

OGE,

My son's an Eagle & I tell everyone I meet that asks about my family. He is now in college & doing great. Made Dean's list 1st quarter.

 

Some say getting your Eagle is hard. I think living up to being an Eagle is harder.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1