OldGreyEagle Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 I am not sure I understand about a lot of things that are discussed on this Forum. A lot is made of different groups "Agenda" be it Homosexuality or Conservative Christian's or whatever else is discussed. How are these Agendas developed and maintained over years, decades of implementation? How are they amemded, altered or disposed of if need be? How are the "members" polled as to what these agenda items should contain? What if there is dissension, how do the members know who to contact to complain? A lot is discussed about the BSA "Gay" policy. Has anyone seen a presentation at either National, Council or District levels about this policy? Has anyone been asked by a scout executive if you knew that the Gay policy was being followed in the troop? I have to say that in the 5 years I have been active in my sons troop as an Assitant Scoutmaster, Unit Commisioner, District Advancement Committee member, and Naitonal Jamboree Assistant Scoutmaster the only policies I have heard about are rules concerning safety, be it safety aflot, safe swin defense, etc. and the mantra of "You cant add to or take away from the advancement criteria" (which I support). Where is the information on what BSA wants or doesnt want found? I keep reading about what "they" want, just who is "they" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 18, 2002 Author Share Posted March 18, 2002 TJ, I just read your post on the Why its relevant thread, where do you get your informaiton on the different committees you spoke of? I dont doubt it, but how do you keep up with this stuff? its not easily found, or at least I cant find it, like I said, I must be outta the loop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjhammer Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Well, I am a little closer to the "inside" than some; I've stated here before that I have been participating in high level debates on this subject for a while. And it interests me enough to make me want to understand it completely. But the information I cite is not exactly secret. The BSA actually explained the National Relationship Committee in their recent press releases. They don't go so far as explaining the dynamics of that group, though. As for the pressure excerted by the Mormon Church, you can find that clearly outlined in the Supreme Court case and briefs filed by the Church. As for the statement that the BSA is controlled by "money" and "members", you need look no further than your friendly local professional Scouter and ask him whether his Critical Achievements (those things he's measured on to determine whether he is doing a good job as a pro) measure his role in the "program" side of Scouting or the money he has raised and new units/members he has recurited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 18, 2002 Author Share Posted March 18, 2002 Thanks TJ, and I say this with admitted sarcasm and without being directed to TJ or anybody else I guess just keeping my nose buried in my troops program,working to deliver the promise and attending District Roundtables is not enough to keep up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sst3rd Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 OGE, I too have felt out of the loop due to the incredibly intense debates on these threads. I've seen where these discussions have had but little relevance to the Troop program I have worked with for years. I will say that Bob White has provided specifics that counter some folk's (and that includes me) traditional Scouting methods. For that, I'm grateful. I've gotten alot out of this forum, and will continue to read, review, and ocassionally respond. The Troop program is where the action is, and using the Patrol method creates the very foundation of citizenship and its rights and responsibilities. As to these combative discussions, and who is more "inside" then "outside," the program, seems to simply feed egos more than helping grow the Scouting program. Put your energy and time where it needs to go, the Scout program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 sst3rd, Ditto! If we focus on providing the best program possible with the resources we have to the Scouts then we are doing our job. All the other "stuff" just muddies the waters. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 I hear and understand OGE's point of view on this derisive issue. Ed, sst3rd, and some others have wondered why so much time is wasted on these topics. Even though I am a very active participant, I tend to agree with their assessment. However, just so you will know where I coming from, let me explain why I continue to join these debates. I must admit; I have my mother's blood. When it comes to my children and their future, I am very paranoid. As a teenager, when I went to the beach with my friends, my mother would always exclaim as I was going out the door "Don't go out too far in the water!" Very embarrassing, but her heart was in the right place. Hey, she's a mom. Any way, I have a fear. While we are running the program, others will work to change the program. While we are concentrating on the boys, others will quietly mold BSA into an organization that embraces their values. Believe it or not, I don't particularly enjoy repeating the same arguments over and over. It is tiresome. However, I feel compelled. I don't want people to take BSA for granted. Sure, today BSA is pretty much the same organization it was 92 years ago. But don't think that can't change in a heartbeat. 35 years ago, how many churches spoke out for the "rights" of the homosexual? Back then, how many churches believed a homosexual should have the right to teach your children or be a minister? Today, while I believe TJ has exaggerated the numbers, there are quite a fewtoo many. This is what happens when "non-believers" join your organization and are allowed to pontificate unchallenged. If the people in the pews spoke up 35 years ago, those churches would not have changed so easily. As it were, the minority grew until they became a majority. Now, those churches no longer worship Christ. They prefer to embrace the politics of the day. BSA is a great organization, but it can fall just as easily. So, yes, my constant ramblings on the "Issue & Politics" threads can be very embarrassing (even to myself), but I hope you know where my heart is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshirescouter Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 Rooster7 keep posting. You give me a reality check all too often. Also its fun to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekender Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 Evmori, I agree with you that far too much time is spent on this and similar threads...Rooster7, I also agree with you that as long as those trying to change the program continue to argue these points, we who want to protect the program from what we see as corruption need to continue to stand up for our beliefs. From what I have read in previous posts from both of you, I'm glad to be in the same organization you are in. I don't always agree but you both seem to have good hearts. I'm not always as eloquent as I would like to be and I am sure I have offended some because I have such strong feelings on this and other subjects. Please, both of you keep working for what you beleive in...we're better off for it. God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9gold-scout Posted March 20, 2002 Share Posted March 20, 2002 As a scout I was taught to respect the rithts and values of others, but I was told that others in return would respect my values. Today some groups say you must accept their values but they are not willing to accept mine. Scouting dose need to be defended. Good people must speek out often to protect their rights and values. I have found www.saveourscouts.com This is a group of scouters who help councils under attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjhammer Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 As a Scouter, regardless of my position on this specific issue, I would caution you to be very careful about supporting a site like the one above. I do not know much about it, but it does not have the BSA's blessing, it is collecting cash donations and is operating as its own non-profit entity with an implied (but not regulated) mission that the money you donate to it will be used to support Scouting and fight against gays. I think the BSA and I would both argue your money is better served donated directly to Scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9gold-scout Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I expect that every scouter who looks at a website with a slant will form his own opinion. When an Eagle Scout has his board of review he is asked for his opinion an many sobjects; there are no ritht or wrong answers to these questions, rather the board is looking to see if the scout is able to defend his position. As for the people behind of "save our scouts", I have marched with some of them. They are scouters in the Southern Californis area. They were outraged when our local Eagle Scout color guard was booed at the last Democratic Convention. They started a petition drive to keep Exploring in the Los Angeles Police Dept. when the city council voted to disband the scouts! It worked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slontwovvy Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 There's also www.defendscouting.org....Yes, and I would agree that each person looks at a web site differently. I personally find Scouting for All's website rather funny. Anytime I need a laugh, just look at some of the things other people think. Funny, yet sobering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slontwovvy Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I will add, however, that this is coming from me, a rather conservative guy who occasionally visits www.jbs.org. Also, the first hyperlink didn't really work out, so here - www.defendscouting.org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I also find the Scouting for All site a hoot! Personally, I stopped buying any Levi products since they pulled their support. I won't even let my wife buy them at a second hand shop. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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