tjhammer Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 At first, I was bewildered by the debate technique used sometimes on this board. After reading that gay Scout leaders were no different than a father/daughter/moose threeway relationship, I was surprised any person could honestly believe that. Now that I have read in other threads that a teenage boy with an earing or long hair is just a step away from a man with a penchant for dressing up in women's underwear, I've gotten a better perspective on just who I've debated against. It's basically a tactic that says "anything that deviates from exactly how I believe the world ought to be is a dangerous, slippery slope, and the further away from my point of view one gets the more wrong and evil they become". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Exactly. I would add this: I have debated several times over the years with people, such as DedicatedDad, who claim to believe in "absolute morality." What they actually believe in is their own belief system as the "absolute," and anybody who doesn't measure up is a "relativist" or worse. It's a convenient way to "win" an argument -- your opinion is no longer just your opinion, it is fundamental, absolute truth, and your counterpart's opinion is no longer just his opinion, but becomes the advocacy of evil. It's a fundamentally dishonest way to debate. Folks like DedicatedDad also amuse me because, while they set themselves up at the apex of morality, not everyone would agree with their diagram. To a member of the Amish, or an Orthodox Jew, an extremist Muslim and perhaps others, DedicatedDad would fall far short on the morality scale because the does not toe their line. In other words, it's all, um, er, relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Morality is a very personal thing. What I think is moral might not be to another. Earings & long hair in my opinion are not morality issues. Homosexuality on the other hand is (and I don't condone it). Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedicated Dad Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 After reading that gay Scout leaders were no different than a father/daughter/moose threeway relationship Actually its just homosexuals in general because theres no such thing as gay scout leaders, only those who pretend to be. That must be your gaydar thing workin again, which reminds me, were still waiting for that clarification on your orientation there OLE buddy, are you gay? As far as your premise goes I hadnt really given that combo any consideration before now but if youre interested in revisiting the issue how are they morally inferior to your pet perversion? , I was surprised any person could honestly believe that. While looking forward to your reading of the book Bias, it goes into some detail how the left wing media simply couldnt/cant understand how anyone could hold a different point of view than theirs, how odd you relate in the same way. Actually your arrogance is breathtaking. Now that I have read in other threads that a teenage boy with an earing or long hair is just a step away from a man with a penchant for dressing up in women's underwear, Now-now my little truth challenged exaggerator, you should at least have some resemblance of truth in your initial post. The slippery slope exists in the rule that A boy is not required to have a uniform to be a boy scout, and since there are no rules against piercing, tattoos, make-up and yes womens clothing, obviously its a reasonable next step if there can be no rules for appearance. Or are you shunning the so-called transgendered? Its basically a tactic that says "anything that deviates from exactly how I believe the world ought to be is a dangerous, slippery slope, and the further away from my point of view one gets the more wrong and evil they become". Nice try but [im] not alone here, youre actually in the minority. The following are statistics from studies released since the Supreme Court's June 2000 decision. 70.3 percent of mothers and fathers of Scouts agree with the Boy Scouts belief that homosexuals are not appropriate role models for Scouts. Among fathers of Scouts 73.5 percent agree. 65.4 percent of American mothers and fathers agree with the Boy Scouts belief that homosexuals are not appropriate role models for Scouts.70 percent of adult Americans say their opinion of the Boy Scouts of America has either not changed or has improved since learning that the group does not allow homosexual members.68 percent of likely voters agree that the Boy Scouts should have the right to set their own rules and dismiss Scout leaders for being homosexual or other rules violations.64 percent of adult Americans think the Boy Scouts of America should not be required to allow openly gay adults to serve as Boy Scout leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Long Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 I do enjoy scarcasm and good natured ribbing but right now I am simply disgusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedicated Dad Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 As well you should be Mike, its not just some alternative lifestyle, its a serious attempt to promote and justify evil and wickedness in the world. Dont give in to their agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 I don't know about you guys but all the tents at my summer camp are tattoed with "NO FLAMES IN TENTS". I think that says it all! Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 TJ, Do you think this thread has any more merit than Dr BS's thread "Adult leaders Taking Over" (under Open Discussion)? His thread was in essence a personal attack on Bob White. Likewise, this thread seems to have been created as a personal attack on Dedicated Dad. I will respectfully ask the Forum Moderator to close this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 DedicatedDad, please keep it up. You are on a roll, don't stop. Please keep implying that because I don't want the BSA to discriminate against gays, I am therefore a promoter of pedophilia. Please keep saying that because I am a tolerant and accepting person (and incidentally following the tenets of my religion in being so), that I delight in thinking about other people's bodily functions. And most of all, keep implying that I do not care about the well-being of the boys that I have promised to help lead, and that I want to deliver them into the hands of child molesters. In fact, I wish everybody who supports the anti-gay policy would debate just the way you do, because then your alleged 70 percent support would evaporate like that, and the policy would then disappear. And then Scouting could go back to concentrating on Scouting. And you, having succeeded at being your own worst enemy, could find something else to do. I hear the Taliban has some leadership vacancies for people who like to tell everybody else what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctmom Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Tattooed Tents?!?!?!? Oh no, see how far our society has declined! (sorry, just couldn't resist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 Rooster opines: Likewise, this thread seems to have been created as a personal attack on Dedicated Dad. The post by the person who started the thread doesn't even mention him. I did, but what I am really focusing on are (1) his style of debate (2) the belief system of which he is the exemplar in this forum. I used his name because it requires a lot less typing than a full description of what he things and says, which people who read this forum are well aware of. I will respectfully ask the Forum Moderator to close this thread. And if he chooses to, it's his forum. But why? This is not the Cub Scouts board, it is the Issues and Politics board. It has a huge disclaimer on it, if you don't want controversy, don't come in here. Those of us who choose to debate here should be able to handle what goes on, or we can leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 NJCubScouter, It's only my opinion, but I see this thread as serving no other purpose but to attack DD. It's no secret that tjhammer and yourself have opinions that are diametrically opposed to him. Perhaps there is a nobler purpose to this thread, but I'm having difficulty seeing it. The goal appears to be to mock DD. I'm sure he can defend himself, but what's the point here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 You guys may not beleive this, and I am not sure I can beleive I am doing this, but Dedicated Dad, you are wrong (now the hard part) You are wrong because you said I have no use for you, or words to that effect. I have plenty of use for you, its your james carville style of debate I have issue with. BUT, be it as it may, Dad has a right to his opinion as much as anyone else. He has a right to choose his style of debate. At times I think he risks losing his message with his tactics, but he is entitled to express his opinion in any way he desires. I also have a right to take issue with his style and have. Thats callled first amendment rights. Now, dad, dont get me wrong, I dont agree with most of what you say, but as the saying goes, I do affirm your right to say it anyway you wish and I reserve the right to disagree with how you say it. And thats why we are the nation other peoples admire and sometimes fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Riddle Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 "No Flames In Tents" - Ed, that's a good one! I'll use that one at Summer Camp! I'm going now, to get ready for a camping trip this weekend with Boy Scouts and Scouters. When y'all figure all this out to everyone's satisfaction, let me know. To be honest, some of you have ruined a wonderful web site with this endless spewing of opinions. I've used this site for good information in the past, but I can no longer stomach this other stuff. I'm going to use my "one hour a week" to help Boy Scouts, not give myself a headache. Best wishes to you all, and keep delivering the promise. Goodbye, Stan Riddle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBlood Posted March 14, 2002 Share Posted March 14, 2002 To be honest, some of you have ruined a wonderful web site with this endless spewing of opinions. I've used this site for good information in the past, but I can no longer stomach this other stuff. Stan, I suggest you give up or take a sabbatical from the Issues and Politics board. Maybe you will have better luck with it than my dad (Rooster7). However I don't think anybody should stop their "endless spewing of opinions". What would you rather have us do? Pretend we all agree? I think that it is a good sign that people disagree enough to actually say something. It is when people stop voicing their opinions that shows they don't care about the program or direction of the program anymore! As long as we aren't getting personal, than I thank everybody for their "endless spewing of opinions". :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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