Lousy Scoutmaster

[Chippewa29]

Something I'm still working on with the adults in my troop is getting them to let their son make his own mistakes on a campout. I try to tell them that when they go on a campout, they are Scout leaders, not parents. Therefore, they need to treat all of the kids the same and not "favor" (over parent) their own son. If they tell their own son to make sure he has his warm coat on and zipped up, be sure to tell that to every Scout in the troop that is doing the same thing. Or, if their son isn't putting away his mess kit after a meal, they need to tell the patrol leader to make sure all the kids put their mess kits away and have him tell the individuals if needed.

 

I'm very fortunate that my parents were very good about letting me go when I got into Scouts. They met the adult leaders of the troop, asked them about expectations, then let me go. They helped me pack for my first trip (using the list they got from the troop leaders), but then I was on my own. If I forgot my pillow, they didn't bring it to camp for me. I sleep with my head on the ground or used my jacket. If I forgot my mess kit, I was really nice to the other guys in my patrol and got to parts of theirs. It didn't kill me to eat cereal off a plate a couple of times or drink out of a bowl or try to eat a whole meal using only a spoon. I learned not to forget my stuff in the future and my parents didn't feel like they would always have to take care of me. Most (but not all) of the other guys I went through my early Scouts years with had parents similar to mine. Some of the Scouts in my troop are like that, but it seems like more and more of them won't let go of their kids or force them to take responsibility for their actions (or non-actions).

[sctmom]

My son and I did quite well on this campout. At one point, I did tell him that "mom" was not on this campout.

 

I even threatened to not let him ride with me, I agreed since I had other boys in my vehicle, but made him sit in the back with them. I was surprised to see the other boys asking to ride alone with their parents. I want my son to be independent and he wants to be. I helped him in packing, but am slowly giving him more responsibility about it. This time I asked him up front what he should take. He did good with his list, included his flashlight and handbook!

 

As a Webelos leader I would get amazed at the parents who would take simple things out of the kid's hands -- like the flag needing folding, setting up a tent. One night I had my son lead the boys in setting up my tent, before I could blink there were 2 dads over there taking over. Not just directing, but actually doing it!

 

[Mommascout]

Hi Scouters:

 

I strongly agree with everyone on the issue of parents who stifle their sons and try to do everything for them. I think that most parents who choose Scouting for their sons have done so with their child's best interests at heart and can usually step back once they learn about the program.

 

Those new parents in SCTMOM's troop who were angered, left early, and decided on another troop after the FIRST campout, certainly did not give the Scoutmaster or troop a fair chance to grow.

 

If they do go on to start their own troop they will inevitably have to go through training and then they will (hopefully!) come to a better understanding of how troops need to run. They will then be in the leadership position and have to prove themselves as worthy leaders to the parents of their scouts. They may get negative feedback if they can't let go of the "Do It My Way" mentality.

 

I have no regrets about my family leaving our troop. As I said enrollment dropped dramatically over the past year (no new Webelos either) as many parents and scouts simply quit without looking back. We stayed for over a year - largely due to the fact that we are definitely "lifers" and will always be committed to Scouting. Attending the National Jamboree only reinforced that for us.

 

There were so many reasons we left our troop that I could start 20 different threads to discuss them. Suffice it to say that after weighing all the factors and discussing it with our son (who lost interest in even attending meetings) we felt that we had given it our best and it was time to find a troop that truly exemplified Scout Spirit. And we did! The difference in leadership, friendliness and the general atmosphere was obvious immediately. But what most impressed my husband and me was how the entire meeting was scout-run - it was a breath of fresh scout spirit. We feel more at home there after 3 weeks than we did in our home troop after more than a year. Now our son is excited again about Scouting! And so are we!!!

[Chippewa29]

I liked Mommascout's comment on how the people that decided to start their own troop eventually have to get training. About ten years ago, the adults in my troop (I chose to stay neutral) had a big fallout, with several people being forced out (one needed to go, the others I would have like to see stay). The one who was the biggest proponent of "booting" the other adults didn't think uniforms were necessary, smoked in front of the kids, and ordered out pizza once when the kids burned dinner on a campout. After about 6-8 months of being totally frustrated, he finally decided to get trained and changed his tune quite a bit. As time went on he realized that two of the people he forced out really weren't that bad and he was now doing things very similar to what they had been doing (the BSA way).

 

What I've seen when people leave a troop like that and decide to start their own troop is that they basically have a troop for their kids that lasts for a few years and then the troop dies. I've seen three troops in my area do that very thing in the past 10-12 years. The first year or two is great, but then things start getting stale and by the fourth or fifth year, the troop exists mainly on paper and solely for the purpose of a couple of Scouts to get their Eagle awards.

[sctmom]

Mommascout,

So glad you have found a good troop. When we first looked at troops last fall, the first one we visited was similiar to the "bad" one you describe. I introduced myself to the Scoutmaster as a parent and Webelos leader, he said his name and walked away. There were sooooo many things wrong. Then I saw a "good" troop. WOW, the difference is amazing!!

 

You can just tell it in the way the boys say the oath and law at the beginning of the meeting, the look on their faces, the look on the faces of the parents. Visiting what is now "our troop", I had boys thank me for visiting. The boys took my son right in and made him feel welcome. After 2 visits he felt like he had friends there. The adults are just that friendly to me as well. And it is GREAT to watch a 13 year old taking on the role of leadership.

 

I've told my son that no group is perfect, but he can't quit things because of one small incidence. Even after getting in trouble on the campout, the boys still had a good time. They are ready for the next one.

 

 

[LongHaul]

I agree with Sctmom. Parents are NOT allowed on any of the troop campouts. Parents are restricted to PARENTS NIGHT functions. Adults are always welcome anywhere anytime. The differece is I'm not your dad I'm your Scoutmaster. The adults I work with (after observing me handle the same problem differently at two seperate times largely because one instance involved my son) have made a rule that leaders don't correct thier own kid. If I see one of my sons "doing" or "not doing" I have to ask another leader youth or adult to deal with it. Over the years this has helped several boys reach beyond thier parents grasp and "figure it out" for themselves more than once.

[SagerScout]

Chippawa wrote:

 

 

[evmori]

Sager,

We have had similar situations in my Troop. We give each new Scout a gear list they will need to bring on almost every camping trip. We go over what to pack & what not to pack. Electronic devices are a definite NO. After a couple of trips, the Scouts improve.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[cindyscout]

Just a comment to reply to Mommascouts email on the frustrations with that particular Scoutmaster. My son was also a member of that troop and while we left the troop because I took a new job in another state, my son would have transferred out of that troop if we had stayed. I realize that this is all volunteer work and I did my share of work as a committee member. But if a boy is to grow in Scouting he needs the proper leadership and if he is not getting it there it needs to be found elsewhere. It was sad to see the troop shrink and the spark and enthusiasm go out of the boys one by one. I feel when a troop runs into trouble like that it is the responsibility of council to step in and see what the problem is, and correct it if possible. My son is happy with his new troop and remarks often that he is glad he found a scout troop that he can grow with! I love scouting myself and will do what I can to see both my sons grow with the program.

Regards,

Cindy

[Mike Long]

The Council typically (at least in what I see) has no clue what happens at the troop level. However at the district level the Troop should have been assigned a Unit Commisioner to help with problems like you describe. There is a structure in place to deal with these issues. Wether or not the structure is used or used effectively is another matter.

 

My Unit Commissioners for seven years were useless to me. One I even wouldn't even allow to be near our Scouts. I got a call last week from my new one and THANK GOD he seems like he wants to get out and do. I'm looking forward to working with him.

 

Glad to know you y'all found a happy scouting home.