Lousy Scoutmaster

[Weekender]

Sctmom,

 

Could I give you my thoughts on the High/Low adventure issue. I understand if a boy doesn't want to go on a particular trip such as white water..they should skip that one. What I have tried to guide our troop toward (and this is an ongoing project) is what I think of as Mid-adventure. These are trips that have enough challenge that the older boys enjoy it and get to do something new and yet are still designed for the younger scouts to make it with some effort. 5-7 mile hikes over a weekend. Base camping with dayhikes into the wilderness areas (longer walks lighter loads). The troop I was in when I was a kid was the same way. I "grew up" in scouting believing there was very little that a troop could do over a weekend that the youngest boys couldn't be involved in. I think if the troop sets reasonable goals both the older and younger boys could do most of the trips together.

 

hope it all works out for you.

[Mommascout]

sst3rd

 

Sorry about the title of this thread "Lousy Scoutmaster" ... but at the moment I wrote that, it was how I truly felt. A lot of these forums take a turn from the original posting subject. I will title my next issue in a more tactful way. That also was my very first time I posted! I've learned alot from reading the others.

[sst3rd]

Mommascout,

 

Please take no offense. I was writing my response when I happened to look up and saw the title of this thread. I understand how topics can change from their original focus. As our Troop struggles, I tend to review my responsibilities within our Scouting program. Am I doing my best ??? Sometimes I have to reaffirm this through discussions with our Troop's other adult leaders. We're all doing our best. Our program will move forward. We have to be patient. That's the hard part.

[Sdriddle]

As a new Scout parent I was wondering what the proper procedure for encouraging seperate patrol activities would be? Would it be appropriate for a parent to suggest this to the members of a patrol? Should this go before the committee or mentioned to a SM or ASM? I wonder how much the boys actually know they can do unless it is suggested by adults. I am planning on taking new leader essentials to learn more about how Boy Scouts operates coming off of 4 years of extensive cub involvement. The troop is very old with a lot of history, but went through a period of years with low enrollment and does not have any "older scouts". The oldest are probably in 8 th grade. My concern is how to encourage new(unused) concepts to the troop as a new parent and not step on a bunch of toes. This is a small town without a lot of options for troops and do not want to alienate myself or my son.

[sctmom]

I thought of this thread title after a weekend camping with my son's troop. Some parents got very upset and left early with their boys. They are going to join another troop where they can have more control. We all know one of the adults at the other troop.

 

I know the beginning of this thread was about a scoutmaster who is ruling the troop with an iron hand and not following BSA ways. This is more about what some people would say is a "lousy scoutmaster" who is labeled that because he is following BSA ways.

 

I was frustrated and upset at times over the weekend. But once I stepped back and thought about things, I calmed down. First of all, the scoutmaster is following the BSA methods and is very careful about safety policies. The troop uses the patrol method. There were 2 new scout patrols on this trip. One has a scout who has been in the troop for a year as their PL. Things were not always going smoothly with the boys. They are BOYS. The scoutmasters were watching, periodically pulling the PL aside to settle him down and get him focused. For the most part they were letting the boys settle their differences.

 

For a few parents, they think this scoutmaster is bad, along with all the parents who send their children with him. The thing that really sold me on this guy was when he stood there and said "we made a mistake, let's correct it." He went and got the few older scouts at the campout, and had them get the younger ones folding tents and tarps. Was he following BSA rules and methods? Yep. Is he perfect? No. None of us are. Just like we all do with our own kids, he is doing the best he can. We all make mistakes. He admitted his mistake and started correcting it. As adults we all learned some things too.

 

The troop they are going to disregards safety rules. They do not follow the patrol method. They are having some turn over in leadership, but have a long way to go. Especially with parents in charge who can't let their sons out of their site.

 

One piece of advice --- if you let new parents go camping, DO NOT let their tents be within site and earshot of their boys! (even though some will probably move so they are close)

 

 

[evmori]

sctmom,

We don't encourage parents to go camping with their new Scouts. We feel this is a good time for the boys to be with older Scouts & learn from them without mom & dad around. We do encourage the parents to visit during the day to see what we are working on. We also encourage parents to sign on as leaders. We don't give the new adult leaders much responsibility until they have attended Scoutmaster Fundamentals.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sctmom]

Ed, After this weekend, the troop is considering not letting new parents go camping. These boys would never camp if that was the case. The parents would not let them out of their sight.

 

I once heard it takes about 3 months for a boy to get used to Boy Scouts and about 1 year for the parents. I really understand that after this weekend! I was a little more prepared because I've been reading and researching for the past year the differences between Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting.

 

 

[Bob White]

Scoutmom,

We do encourage new parents and for that matter any parent to go camping with us. We find the best way to recruit them as leaders and committee members is to show them what we do and how we do it. We make it very clear to them that their role is to sit by the fire with a cup of coffee and a good book and relax. they see that the boy leaders are in charge and how the patrol method works. They also see how the adult leaders counsel and guide the junior leaders to run the patrols and troop. Scouting is a family activity so we encourage adults to be present but they understand that they are there to watch not work.

 

Bob

[evmori]

Bob,

Considering sctmoms experience, I feel allowing the parents of new Scouts on camping trips will only delay the boys. If mom and/or dad are around, there is less of a chance for a new Scout to try something. You can tell them until you are blue in the face to sit by the fire & read a book. If they see their son having trouble, most will jump in to help their son. This isn't a bad thing. I feel it just doesn't give the new Scout the chance to try - and maybe fail - new things on his own.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sctmom]

This may have gone smoother if the parents had seen the troop in action BEFORE the campout. They were disappointed in the fact the Patrol Leader had "no experience". Well, that's true but at some point he has to get some. The scoutmasters realized they should have had the troop guides over in that area being more involved.

 

Then you get into the discussion of will the troop guide let the PL do his job or will the troop guide just take over. Some boys are just going to stand aside and let the troop guide take over.

 

The upset parents had only been to one troop visit at which we spent the whole meeting talking to the scoutmaster and didn't see the boys. They had not attended any other troop meetings. There had been no talk to them of "here is how this works." I see why some troops highly encourage all parents to go to Scoutmaster Fundamentals. Even though I haven't been yet, I have read the Scoutmaster handbook a few times and just reading these boards, I've learn a lot.

 

It's hard to stand there and see your son struggling. Or hear that your son didn't have his choice of food for breakfast because a couple of kids ate all the good stuff while he had his back turned. For the most part the parents didn't interfere, they just got upset.

[Bob White]

sctmom,

Where was the Asst. Scoutmaster of the New Scout Patrol during this time? How close to the action was the Troop Guide. The way the New Scout Patrol method works both these people should be right there with the patrol. The troop guide and the New Scout Patrol Leader of the month need to be joined at the hip. The parents are understandably upset if a bunch of boys were expected to go from an adult lead den to a boy lead patrol on their first campout. It is a 12 month process, that is why they are assigned an adult and an experienced scout to get them through it. Ask that the ASM for the New Scouts stay within coaching distance of the Troop Guide, and the Troop Guide stay within counseling distance of the Patrol Leader.

 

I still recommend that the parents always be encouraged and allowed to attend. My experience has been greatly different than evmori's. I find that the parents resopond very well to staying back and observing once you explain the way the game is played (BP described scouting as a game with a purpose). On rare instances a parent will try to get to close to the action, we always just send them to gather firewood. Parents who show they understand and appreciate the patrol method are selected to join the adult leadership, others are encouraged to come anytime and enjoy watching the scouts grow.

 

Some adults take a little more coaching than others but thats just part of the game.

 

Bob White

[sctmom]

The PL has been with the troop for a year, a PL for a month. I think everyone felt he would do best trying out his leadership with the new scout patrol. The older boys would just ignore him, he has problems communicating and relating to his peers.

 

The older scouts were keeping to themselves and not nearby. The Scoutmaster and ASMs were within 100 feet of the 2 new scout patrols. The Scoutmaster realized we (parents of 3 new boys) were not real happy on Saturday. He made it clear we had as much authority as he did. He encouraged us to go inspect the ice chest and food cleanliness situation when we questioned it. As the new parents, of course we didn't want to step on any toes. Once he made it clear, we did go assist the PL in preparing dinner. The parents were good at showing him what to do, without doing it for him. The next morning, the others stepped back again instead of assisting. In their defense, I think they didn't want to overstep the boundaries and wanted to let the official adults do their job.

 

The scoutmaster saw that he needed the troop guides and a couple of adults more involved with this patrol and started fixing that on Sunday. By then it was too late for a few of these folks. On the other hand, I know these people and they have done this in the past at the Pack level. They want to have their own troop and run it their way. I knew they would not stay long if they couldn't take over. Nice people but like to control.

 

[evmori]

sctmom,

AHA! Sounds like the ones who left are teh "my way or no way" type.

I give the Scoutmaster credit for recognizing the problem & finding a solution to remedy it so quickly. I'm sure this Troop is in good hands.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sctmom]

Ed,

Yep, can't please some people no matter what you do. In the years I've known these folks, I've only seen a handleful of people who they were happy with in scouts or at school.

 

I give this scoutmaster a LOT of credit. I told him I didn't agree with some things I saw, and he seemed very open to talk about it. He is sad he lost some scouts and hopes they do find another troop or start their own. He also thanked me for hanging in there when the going got tough the other day. The adults in this troop admit they are not perfect. They try to not make the same mistake twice. Bottom line is they ARE following the BSA methods and policies.

 

What are we teaching our kids if we walk out as soon as things aren't exactly how we want them? Yes, there are times when you run from something as fast as possible, but I talked with my son and told him this was not one of those times. If I avoided everyone I didn't agree 100% with, then I would have to be a hermit. We aren't talking about an abusive situation.

 

[evmori]

It's a slow day here at work!

 

sctmom,

What this teaches kids is if they don't like something they can quit or run to mom & dad & they will fix it. We both know this isn't how the real world operates.

 

My wife & I have always taught our kids they must complete what they started. If they don't want to do it again, that's OK.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1