Lousy Scoutmaster

[evmori]

My mistake. Forgot about that one.

 

My Troop is rather small (17 active Scouts 3 patrols) an I don't encourage separate patrol activities. I don't feel my Scouts are missing out on anything in Scouting. Our camping trips are always skill oriented & they are learning every minute.

 

Mommmascout,

I don't think you can lump 15-18 year olds in the same group. A 15 year old isn't ready for the same stuff an 18 year old is. You are correct stating there is a wide gap between an 11 yr old Scout & a 15 yr old Scout. I know they need to be handled differently. That's just common sense. I don't need a training course to tell me that.

 

Also, are you saying patrols should be divided by age? If so, I don't agree. I feel each Patrol should be led by an older Scout & intermixed with different ages. This is a great way for the younger Scouts to learn from the older Scouts & a great way for the older Scouts to teach the younger ones. I have yet to meet an 11 or 12 year old Scout who is ready to be a Patrol Leader. These kids are just starting to figure out what Scouting is all about.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Bob White]

sctmom,

 

Something that would help your situation is a part of the patrol method called the New Scout Patrol. It was designed and introduced to Boy Scouting in the late 80's and is still the recommended way to operate a scout troop.

 

It is designed to meet two specific needs of new scouts. Advancement and Socialization. The New Scout Patrol is a group of 6 to 8 newly crossed over webelos or webelos aged boys to a patrol. That patrol is assigned an Assistant Scoutmaster and an older scout of at least First Class Rank as the Troop Guide. The advancement goal for the New Scout Patrol is First class First Year. To that end the New Scout Patrol functions very independantly from the rest of the patrols. They start off with the troop at the opening of meetings and at the closing, and might participate in a game, but for the most part they are off learning and doing the basic scout skills toward First Class. In this way they are part of the troop but still seperate, to allow the boys to grow in skills, maturity and strength before they are mixed with the rest of the troop.

 

The New Patrol is encouraged to have their own outings as well. Simply because they do not have the skills or stamina to do the activities of the older scouts. For Leadership the New Scout Patrols rotate the Patrol Leader role monthly so that by the end of the first year each New Scout has had a taste of leadership responsibilities and has had the opportunity to attend a monthly Patrol Leaders Council Meeting to see how a troop functions. Upon reaching First Class the New Scouts have the choice of staying together as a patrol or joining Regular Patrols.

 

Regular patrols are made of Scouts who are First Class and higher. Their troop meetings focus on event planning and learning advanced skills and introduction to Merit Badges.

 

The third type of Patrol would be a Venture Patrol of older scouts doing High Adventure Activities. these would be the most skilled and oldest scouts. They are largely responsible for teaching skills to the other scouts.

 

This organization allows you to offer activities that fit the needs and characteristics of each age and development level.

 

A complete outline of this process is in the Scoutmasters Handbook.

 

I hope this helps.

Bob

 

[Chippewa29]

Patrol activities should be strongly encouraged. However, they should supplement the troop program (as laid out by the Scouts of the troop) and not replace it. For example, most troops do an outdoor activity once a month. If patrols want to do their own activites in addition to the regular troop activities, that is great. When I was a Scout, my patrol had patrol meetings on occasion and even did a couple of patrol hikes. They weren't huge hits, but we felt like we were accomplishing something.

 

The big concern I think most people have is that say, for example, the PLC is trying to decide what to do for an activity. Three of the four patrol leaders, along with the SPL and ASPL, decide that they want the troop to go on a bike hike at Local State Park. The other patrol, not liking to ride bikes, decides that they want to just do a regular backpacking hike at ThatOther State Park instead. Therefore, they skip the troop event and do their own patrol event while the rest of the troop is biking. I personally feel that is wrong and causes trouble for the strength of the troop. What does everyone else think?

[ScouterPaul]

Bob White

I understand the new patrol method. I have a question on leadership. Let's say you have 6 boys in the patrol and rotate patrol leader every 2 months. Here is the question do you let the boys vote every time or do you rotate through the 6 boys. It would be possible the boys could vote the same Scout as leader multiple times. Do you put limits on the number of times a boy could be leader the first year? Do you have any advice?

 

Thanks

[Mommascout]

Ed Mori:

 

In response - No, I never said a 15 year old is equal to an 18 year old in their experiences and mentality. I took the Ages and Stages training - remember? I said the 11-13 age group is very different than the 15-18 group. I was making a generalization to make a point about why the patrol method is important.

 

I did not say patrols should be divided by age but many patrols are grouped with similar age-ranges. New scouts should be in their own new patrol until they reach the rank of First Class and have learned the basic skills needed and then they should move on to more experienced patrols that usually are mixed ages. But many new (Webelos) scouts choose to stay together as a patrol when they do reach First Class because the bonds have been created. Of course, this is not typical in all troops.

 

Each scout proceeds up the advancement ranks on an individual basis so of course the ages will be mixed to some degree. My son's old troop grouped the scouts into patrols of similar age, rank and experience and it worked very well. The older scouts were usually assigned to teaching scout skills instruction to the younger and inexperienced boys. So on that note we finally agree on something. Older scouts are leaders to younger scouts.

 

In one paragraph you are telling us how different the 15 year old boys are from the 18 year old boys and how you can't "lump" them in the same group and in the next you say each patrol should be intermixed with different ages. I'm confused about what you are questioning me about???

 

A patrol - no matter what the mixture of ages and stages is - has a right to plan some meetings, service projects, hikes, campouts or whatever - independent of the troop as long as it is approved by the SM and does not interfere with a troop activity. (Even the new Scout Patrol has that right - they may need more guidance of course but they can go to a professional baseball game or a play as a patrol - any activity will strenghthen that patrol and that is the goal.)

 

Take the Challenge Ed! Try it once - just one weekend to see what it is all about. Lead one patrol on a campout and leave the rest of the troop behind. What will happen? You will see each individual scout in a different light. The bond between you and each boy will be strengthened. They will get to know and respect you better, and you them. The patrol will create a stronger bond among the scouts. They can work on scout skills and get much more individual attention - less chaos and distraction. The growth and strength of that one patrol will only strengthen "their" TROOP even more.

 

Enlist the other adult leaders to assist with supervising individual patrol outings. Regroup as a troop and discuss and reflect what was positive and what didn't work and how to help each patrol improve. Over time there can only be success.

 

Have a discussion with your PLC and toss out the idea and you'll be surprised with the response.

 

Good Luck!

[OldGreyEagle]

We will have 24 new scouts this year, so we will have 3 new patrols.

 

Each patrol will have 2 troop "guides" assigned to them. Each patrol after 4 meetings elects a patrol leader who will attend all PLC meetings, so they can see whats going on and how the troop functions. The term of office is 1 month so each scouts gets a chance.

Once elected the scout cant be relected until everyone gets a turn.

 

The troop guides stay with the patrol for 18 months or so, February of bridging to the second september, then they are folded into an existing patrol. A new PL every month.

[Bob White]

Hi ScouterPaul,

The recommended process is that the boys have the process explained to them and that each scout will get to be the Patrol Leader. You explain that after they reach first class they will hold the position for at least 6 months.

 

So to start with lets try a patrol election to see who gets to go first. That person will get to select an Assistant Patrol Leader. Next month the Assistant Patrol Leader will become the Patrol Leader and he will get to select a new Asst. Patrol Leader. we will keep going every 30 days until everyone get a chance to do both jobs. Then we will hold a new election and start all over again. I hope this helps.

 

Happy Scouting,

Bob

 

[Mommascout]

Scouter Paul:

 

Our new Webelos have just crossed over and will have similar opportunities that OGE's troop offers. They each will get a turn and will proceed in alphabetical order.

[Mommascout]

(continuation)

The boys will get to be PL for one meeting as a way of breaking the ice and easing into the program for any new scouts. Then after each has had a turn they will hold elections. There 11 or 12 scouts so they should complete their trial run in about 3 months.

[ScouterPaul]

Thanks!

[sctmom]

My son's troop is having new scout patrol. They are getting scouts from 3 different packs. One patrol is made up a complete den that is crossing over together. The rest are making up 1 or 2 more patrols. They have been assigned troop guides. The troop guides also talked to the parents some. They wanted information about what my son's strong points were. They said if he liked to cook, then they would make sure he got to do some cooking at the first campout --- keeps his interest and builds his confidence. The troop guides will sign off on many of the rank advancements the first year.

 

I'm not sure how they are going forward from there about PL and where they go after the first year.

 

They try to have part of each troop meeting for patrol's to meet. I know the week of a campout, the patrols plan their menus during the troop meetings. Then they get the scoutmaster's approval of the menu (make sure they aren't eating hotdogs all weekend).

 

As I've said in another post, I like the idea of the older boys teaching the younger ones. My son's school teachers and counselor perked up when I explained this to them. They said he really needed that and boys are going to listen to each other first anyway. It will help him with his personal relationship skills.

 

We have already been attending troop meetings, even though he has not yet crossed over. We seem to be getting pretty good at separating as soon as we get out of the car. We keep our distance. It's hard to see my son not paying attention and be quiet. So, I turn the other way and let the troop leaders handle it. It seems to be working wonders in making him less dependent on me in public -- only after a few weeks. Peer pressure CAN be a good thing!

 

Thanks to many posts on this board, I knew what to look for when we looked for a troop. We saw one really bad one, and the one we choose. This one isn't perfect and doesn't claim to be, but they have the right attitude and try to correct any problems. And they follow BSA methods.

 

 

[evmori]

mommascout,

By "lumping together" I meant you can't compare a 15 year old to an 17 year old. They can be part of the same patrol. 18 year old Scouts are considered adults.

 

Since my (that term again) Troop is small (17 active) I don't have the luxury of having Troop Guides for the new Scouts. Therefore, I mix them in with the other patrols. I have found this works well since there are a range of ages in each patrol with a range of skills. The new Scouts learn from the older Scouts this way.

 

I have "taken the challenge". I have observed the patrols in my Troop on man ocasions perform a variety of tasks & skills. I also focus on how they work together as a patrol & how the PL functions. This is how I gauage what I need to work on the with my SPL, ASPL & PL's.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[sst3rd]

The prior postings have verified the "range" of Troop programs that exist around the country. I happen to agree with everything being said. I think the combination of activities for a specific Troop is dictated by its size, youth leadership, adult leadership, and the experience and training levels. Unfortunately for the my Troop (I'm the SM), we're getting smaller and smaller. Our Pack hasn't graduated any Webolos in three years (issues being worked appropriately), so I'm a bit jeolous hearing of all of the Webolos graduating into the Troops every spring, and all of the discussion of creating new Patrols or adding these new Scouts to existing Patrols. We've got a great program planned by our youth leaders at the annual planning meeting this past August. We encourage and support Patrol activities, but most occur on Troop trips. All of our Scouts, both young and old, have little time for additional Scouting functions. It's tough getting the Scouts to particitpate in their own planned trips. The few younger Scouts we have, still have their parents guide their activities more directly than the older Scouts. Sports always comes first, then church youth activities (if active in church), and then FINALLY, Scouting, if the parents don't have anything for the young man to do during the weekend.

I'm sorry if I sound a bit down. I just came from our Troop meeting, and most of our Scouts have come up with excuses for not coming on this weekend's Troop trip. They planned it !!! The adult and youth Staff have a great mini Camporee program lined up, based on what the Scouts wanted. This takes all of the wind out of our sails, and I can tell all of our Scouts are down, because we're not getting any new faces in the Troop. We'll keep plugging away, and I'll keep having a positive attitude. We've done a variety of recruitment programs, and will continue to do so. We'll come out the other end stronger than ever once our efforts start to bear fruit. I still feel a little weird though, posting under the "subject" of "Lousy Scoutmaster."

 

Keep those ideas flowing...........

[eisely]

As I commented in another thread elsewhere, patrol activities are to be encouraged. There are often practical difficulties that arise, mostly in the area of adequate adult support and supervision, but that is not a reason to not try.

 

Many people swear by the "new boy patrol" concept. I consider it a mixed blessing. It is a partial answer the wide range of ages one can encounter in a scout troop. However, in my experience, it is more difficult to integrate the new boys into regular mixed age patrols after their new boy patrol experience. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

[evmori]

eisely,

 

We have never had enough new Scouts (usually 3-4 per year) to have a New Scout Patrol.

 

I agree that sometimes the younger Scouts can be intimidated by the older Scouts & this can pose problems within the Patrol. This is where I would step in and have a discussion with the SPL, ASPL & PL's. I would explain one of the best ways to learn is by doing. Let the new Scouts do some of the work. Don't expect them to do it as well as you. Watch & teach as them as they go.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1