Eagle Problem

[grekonsz]

I'm a long hiared life scout going up for Eagle. My scoutmaster wants me to cut my hair. I don't have to cut my hair if I find 6 long haired eagle scouts. If you are a long haired eagle scout could please send me a e-mail, maybe with a picture of you. Thank you.

My e-mail is grekonsz@hotmail.com

[NJCubScouter]

Assuming that this is a serious question: With all due respect to your Scoutmaster, it seems to me that what you really need is not six "long-haired" Eagle Scouts, but a Scoutmaster who requires you to meet the actual requirements for Eagle and doesn't add to them. As for "long hair," I don't even know what that means. I grew up in the 60s and 70s, when long hair went from meaning anything that wasn't a crew-cut to hair that went down to someone's waste and in some cases was not kept in, shall we say, a healthy condition. In high school I had what would be considered "long hair" today. (I stopped at Life, but it wasn't because of my hair.)

 

I guess what I am trying to get at is, I suppose it is possible for long hair to be kept in such a way that one is not doing one's best to be "Clean." If that is not the case with you -- if you are showing Scout spirit by doing your best to live by the Oath and Law -- the length of your hair should not have anything to do with making Eagle.

[Bob White]

NJscouter is absolutely correct. As long as you meet all the requirements in your handbook, and you act in a scoutlike manner, the only requirements you have to meet are in your handbook. I respectfully sugest that before you have to find 6 longhaired Eagles your SM needs to find ONE current scout handbook that has hair length as an Eagle requirement.

PS.

You or your parents should contact the local District Executive or District Commissioner for assistance.

[FScouter]

May I suggest that you try to work this issue out with your Scoutmaster? Is your hair neat, clean, and well kept? If not, fix that and discuss it with him. Demonstrate to him through your actions and attitude that you are a worthy candidate for Eagle rank. Show him your Eagle application packet and how you have prepared the presentation of your Eagle project. Ask him if there are any areas he feels that you could improve your candidacy. Avoid arguing with him about your hair, rather let him see compelling reasons why he can back off from his stance.

 

Remember that you need your Scoutmaster's signature on your application. He may not have a "legal" right to hold you back in this manner, but it will get ugly if you or your parents have to resort to going over his head. You will be a much stronger Eagle, and better prepared for life, it you are successful in working out this issue directly with your Scoutmaster.

 

Good luck!

[evmori]

I have never heard of this before. If this is true, then the Scoutmaster is adding to the requirements for Eagle & that can't be done. I suggest you sit down with you Scoutmaster & Committee Chair & discuss this.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[jmcquillan]

If I might make a suggestion here...

 

This problem definitely sounds like one that requires an adult to Scoutmaster discussion, not an Eagle candidate to SM discussion. This is basically an issue of not adhering to National Policy, as others have pointed out. The Scout should not be required to, or placed in a position where he has to, take issue with his SM on National BSA policy. The committee should be handling this, but perhaps the spark may have to come from some other concerned adult...some other adult who sees this as breaking ranks with National Policy, and allowing ones own personal tastes on hair length to dictate troop policy. Perhaps the SM is just not in tune with how far his reach in establishing policy extends, and has unwittingly overstepped his bounds. Perhaps not. Be that as it may, the Scout should not be made the pawn in the process. This is an issue for adults to remedy, and it should be rather simple, as the National policy is clear, as others have pointed out. National sets the policy, no one else can modify it in any way...even for length of hair.

[Dedicated Dad]

I see no compelling reason to cut your hair, you certainly have the right to complete your Eagle however you want while remaining inside the rules, let the chips fall where they may. I think youre on solid ground here to make this happen on your terms. With that said and assuming you get your way, Id like to ask you what lesson will you take away from this experience, is achieving your goals strictly on your terms the best way to finish? Do you think your Scoutmaster is making an unreasoned request? A subjective merit system is not involved with the Scout program, its pass/fail and for good reason, but what is going to happen when you go farther down the road? College I suspect will be your next task and you will be graded on a more capricious basis, will you be so likely to expect your professors to be as unsubjective as your Scoutmaster? What about for your job or graduate school interviews senior year, will you expect the interviewers to see you for your accomplishments and nothing more? We all have to jump through hoops to achieve certain goals in life, some arbitrary, some not, and I guarantee this little situation will not be the first trivial request you will have to complete to meet your objectives. How will you handle the important requests that are more subjective in determining your future and are not explicitly defined as life changing, how will you know the right way to be tractable as an employee? Further, what has your Scoutmaster given up for you, anything? Time, effort? Is obedient just a word that comes with no burden or ordeal, is the loyalty he gave to you in the form of his time and hard work not worth any durability or tolerance on your part. Not to mention that your hair grows back and yet your actions here will forever remain the product of the decision you made. You have the absolute right to finish your Scouting career in whatever manor you wish, but just because you can doesnt mean its the right thing to do.

[bigbeard]

Long Haired Eagle(almost),

 

Please read all the posts above carefuly - finer counsel you will not find.

 

Dedicated Dad makes some interesting points. Making Eagle is a significant milestone in a young man's life. It implies you are capable of thinking for yourself, able to start steering your own course, deciding what "right" is.

 

Many years ago, hair became an issue in a choice I had made. In a nutshell, my mid-back locks were left in a pile on the floor, revealing an unattractive, smooth-skinned melon.

 

To this day, it's not when I signed the paper to go to work for Uncle Sam that I remember, it's the day I got my haircut. It's the day I stopped being a boy and started being a man.

 

The ball is entirely in your court, as described above. Think about it all, plant your feet, and do what seems right to you. Don't be pushed or shamed or cajoled, decide for yourself.

 

Good Luck!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

After reading FScouter's comments, I want to clarify my earlier answer. My point was that the Scoutmaster is wrong to make his request. That does not mean that you want to have a confrontation with him. As FScouter says, diplomacy is called for, and as jmcquillan says, it might be appropriate to have an adult intermediary deal with the scoutmaster. Usually Scouts should be able to deal directly with the scoutmaster, but that assumes that the scoutmaster is acting in his proper role of teacher, advisor, counselor, role model, mentor, etc. Even disciplinarian, when necessary, if it is something that is beyond the junior leaders' ability to deal with. But I think he has stepped out of those roles, and is now acting like a commanding officer. (Would I be wrong in speculating that he holds such a job for a living?) I agree that that is for an adult to deal with.

 

As for DedicatedDad's comments, I agree with them also, if I interpret them correctly. I do not believe he is necessarily suggesting which way you should go, just trying to give you something to think about as you make your decision. DedicatedDad is also perhaps assuming some things about your life that we don't actually know. Perhaps you are Bill Gates' only son and don't have to worry about how you are going to survive in this world. (I know, I know, Bill doesn't have a teenaged son and perhaps no children at all. But you know what I mean.) Perhaps you are planning to join the Army at 18 and want to keep your long hair until then. If, however, you are committed to the "normal" path of finishing high school, going on to college and a job, then it is certainly true that learning which battles to fight and which not to fight, when to compromise and when not, and when and how to be flexible, are essential survival skills in life.

 

Not... and I promise, this is an observation and not a jab... Not that I necessarily expected DedicatedDad to be the one to make the point about flexibility. There is a particular sentence in his post that almost made me choke on my coffee, in light of the goings on in other threads, but rather than send grekonsz's thread hurtling off in an unforseen and unhelpful direction, I will post my comments elsewhere when I get a chance.

 

Just as a point of interest, by the way, somewhere in my brother's possession is a picture of him with fairly long hair at age 18 at his Eagle Court of Honor, in 1982. Also in my parents' house is a picture of my Philmont crew from 1974, with hairstyles ranging from military to shoulder-length (neither of which were mine, but as I said before, my hair was not short.) As I recall the photo, however, only one Eagle badge is visible, and I think that kid had short hair.

[grekonsz]

My scoutmaster has been in the military and a polic officer.

[momof2scouts]

As the Mom of this particular Boy Scout, I'm sad to say that this is a legitimate situation. I am pleased & proud of my son for turning to others in scouting for opinions before determining what actions will follow. I was not aware of his posting until this evening when I overheard him updating his Father about some of the reponses. He gets a high five from me on self-advocacy regarding this dilemna.

 

A little insight into my son first, then I'll share a little insight on the ScoutMaster. My son is 14&1/2. He is in the 9th grade taking several honors classes & is being quite successful in his academics. He has shoulder length hair which is the only distinctive characteristic about him physically. (His hair length is his choice. My only requests are that it is clean & out of his face.) My son has been in Scouting since 1st grade when he joined as a Tiger Cub. He also belongs to the Order of the Arrow. I also have another son that is a Cub Scout & my oldest son is Den Chief for that particular Den. My son participated in the People-to-People program traveling to Yosemite & the Headlands Institute in California during his summer after 6th grade. My son is also the recipient of the Mayor's Award for Youth Volunteer Services after contributing more than 100 hours of his summer (after 8th grade) at a children (7 & under) hands on museum & resource center. Last, but certainly not least, my son is also active with our church & serves as a Sacristan.

 

The Scoutmaster hasn't been with the troop long, not even a full 6 months yet. (He came to us after the previous ScoutMaster stepped down due to medical conditions.) My understanding is that he hasn't been active with a troop for 10 or more years, but has been involved at a district level. He also has a military/police background. Recently this gentleman decided & implemented assignment of positions in the troop. He made my son the Senior Patrol Leader. During the presentation of my sons' Life achievement, the ScoutMaster told of a recent outing with my son at a leadership training event. The ScoutMaster said that my son asked him what he wanted him to do there. The ScoutMaster replied back to him that he wanted him to pretend he was in his back pocket. Later in the day the ScoutMaster asked my son why he was following him to which my son replied that it was at his request. The ScoutMaster was delighted & surprised to have such an obidient Scout.

 

The issue: During a recent weekly meeting, the ScoutMaster told my son that he would not sign off for him to be an Eagle Scout unless he cut his hair above his ears. The ScoutMaster then commented that he bet my son couldn't find him 6 long haired Eagle Scouts.

 

My husband & I have had conversations & discussions with & without our son regarding this situation. We both have the same goal in mind for our son, for there to be a positive resolution. After all, this is my sons choice to become an Eagle Scout & he has our full support.

 

My understanding is that my son does not have to have his ScoutMasters recommendation in particular. Recently I spoke in confidence with an adult Scout that participated as an Indian dancer at my younger son's Blue & Gold Banquet. This gentleman's first reaction was that the ScoutMaster is imposing his personal opinions & that he can not do it & I should report him to the council. After talking for a few minutes with me, this fellow Scouter stated that he would not want to be the ScoutMaster when my sons application moves forward without his signature as the Council will certainly want to know why it isn't included.

 

Personally I do not think taking this over the ScoutMaster's head is going to result in anything positive for anyone. Believe me, the thought crossed my mind immediately upon hearing of this situation. My hope instead, is that my son can rise to the challenge his ScoutMaster proposed of producing 6 Eagle Scouts with long hair. Just maybe the ScoutMaster's eyes will open, even the slightest bit, hopefully enough for him to see exactly what everyone else seems to know & that is just what makes a boy worthy of becoming an Eagle scout.

 

If you are or know of an Eagle Scout that has shoulder length hair or longer & would be willing to play a positive role in helping my son rise to the challenge, then please contact my son so that he may call upon you when it is time for him to move to Eagle Scout. We only ask for your support in a positive manner. Thanks for taking the time to help.

 

[Bob White]

You and your son should be commended. He sounds like a fine young man. I agree that a positive resolution should be found.

 

My concern is, what if you don't find 6 Eagles with shoulder length hair? Would that mean that your son is wrong? What if your son was left handed and the scoutmaster wanted 6 more left handed scouts, would he be right in requiring it?

 

The number of long haired Eagles in the country is irrelevant. The scoutmaster needs to be made aware that the BSA in the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual (available through your council service center) on page 4 the second column 2nd paragraph specifically states "No council, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancement requirements".

 

I would hope that once the scoutmaster was made aware of the BSA policy he would drop this inappropriate requirement.

Congratulations on obtaining the Eagle rank.

Best of Luck,

Bob

[Bob White]

Just one more thought as I reread your post momof2scouts. I appreciate your concern of not wanting to go over the SM's head, but you already are. More specifically your son is. If you look at what we refer to as the pyramid of scouting, a way to visualize the structure of the BSA, on the bottom layer is our National office and Regional offices they support the next layer of the Council. The council supports the District layer. The district supports the Charter Organization layer. That layer in turn supports the Unit Committee. The committee supports the sdult program leader's layer. At the peak of the hierarchy is the boy. So in our program everything that happens is there to support the boy, the focus of the BSA. The SM of your troop is not in a support mode on this topic. Going to the district for help is not going over the SM's head but going to his support level to help him get back on track.

Bob

[Dedicated Dad]

DedicatedDad is also perhaps assuming some things about your life that we don't actually know. Perhaps you are Bill Gates' only son and don't have to worry about how you are going to survive in this world. I dont think this is an appropriate message to send our youth, BSA or not. If youre Bill Gates' only son you dont have to worry about how to respectfully take direction from your teachers or if you have enough money you dont have to be obedient to anyone but yourself or you can do what ever you want when ever you want? and as jmcquillan says, it might be appropriate to have an adult intermediary deal with the scoutmaster. To quote Rooster7: we truly believe that BSA is more about building character than campfires and (paraphrased) part of the Scout experience is learning how to deal with adults which arent your parents. I respectfully but ardently disagree with Bob and jmcquillan on this point. Part of ones Eagle experience is learning how to resolve problems on your own, its an essential skill everyone needs for life. Mom and Dad wont necessarily be there when you have a conflict with your college professors or your bosses and even if youre Bill Gates son you still have no leverage over others other than using your own abilities in conflict resolution. Fight your own battles and learn how to make people see it your way, if you cant, you need to choose what is most important to you and do the right thing. Is your hair more important than Eagle? Is your hair worth the hard feelings that will result from forcing your Scoutmaster to bend to your terms. What if your son was left handed and the scoutmaster wanted 6 more left handed scouts, would he be right in requiring it? Im not sure I understand your analogy, if a Scout pierced his nose (extreme case in point) is that seen as equal character to left handedness. Isnt one a choice of behavior and the other innate condition? The ScoutMaster then commented that he bet my son couldn't find him 6 long haired Eagle Scouts. So this is really about winning a bet to prove him wrong and not a requirement as presented in the original post? (I don't have to cut my hair if I find 6 long haired eagle scouts.) Do you really think if you find 6 long haired eagles hed change his opinion that long hair is not consistent with the image of an Eagle Scout, IMHO I dont think he would? Do you think this is the best way to go about changing his mind? Again, if my boss gave me some arbitrary burden to get my raise Im not sure Id want to [show him up] to get the point across that hes wrong.

[Bob White]

So Dedicated Dad,

If your boss was breaking the law and wanted you to conform to his vision of what is right and wrong, would you not tell him he was breaking the law? If he continued to break the law woulkd you ignore it in order to "get along"?

 

Bottom line...It is a violation of BSA policy to alter the advancement requirements. Regardless of your view or the SM view of what appropriate hair style is, it is NOT a Boy Scout advancement reqirement for any rank.

 

The scout should not have to compromise any belief he has, and as long as that belief does not violate a scouting regulation he will be advanced by an appellate board that reviews this case.

 

I am troubled that the SM in question has several years of experience in the BSA an still has taken such a blatantly improper stance on this issue.