The ACLU

[sctmom]

A few articles some of you might be interested in:

 

http://www.aclu.org/issues/worker/legkit6.html

 

http://www.aclu.org/news/2002/n010802a.html

 

 

http://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy/AAMVA_Speech.html

 

http://www.aclu.org/news/2002/n021302a.html

 

http://www.aclu.org/news/2001/n110801e.html

 

http://www.aclu.org/news/2000/n111500a.html

 

[jmcquillan]

Interesting articles, to be sure. But I'd be a little more interested, sctmom, were you to include your thoughts and reasons for the thread.

 

I chuckled at the ever present spin the ACLU included in the beginning of the article on Americans employed in the private sector of the economy...

 

They said...

 

There are 80 million people employed in the private sector of the American economy. Only about 20 million of these are union members protected from unjust dismissal by collective bargaining agreements. The remaining 60 million are employed "at will".

"At will" employees serve at the unfettered discretion of employers. They can be fired for any reason, even a bad one, or for no reason at all.

 

...apparently, if you're not a union member, your employer employs you only at his own unfettered discretion. That, I think, is quite a slam at the majority of private sector employers, as the "spin" here is that you're not protected, your employer knows it, and he's gonna git' ya when ya least expect it....

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..........

 

...all those employers are, by ACLU spin, monsters awaiting they're opportunity to trash us.......

 

 

[Bob White]

A question comes to mind.

Is every employee of the ACLU a union member, or are they "at will" employees serving at he unfettered discretion of their employers?

[sctmom]

I posted the links due to other threads where people seem convinced the ONLY thing the ACLU does is try to gain extreme privilges for gays and atheists.

 

By the way, I am not in a union, have never worked in a type of job that has a union. I work in a "right to work" state --- that means if the boss walks and it just doesn't like the way you look that day, you can be fired with no reason. Most reputable companies have rules and firing people, but it still leaves things open for abuse. Often those abused are the ones in low paying jobs, low income, who have very demanding jobs. One of the cases on the ACLU web page is about a women who called in after her shift had started to say she would not be in because her brother had died. She lost her job because of this.

 

[evmori]

Ya know, we can bash or defend the ACLU all we want. I think we all know what the ACLU does (or doesn't do - I'm a basher). I feel a thread dedicated to the ACLU regardless of the subject has no place on this board. Folks, this is a Scout forum! Let's stick to the game at hand!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

 

"The ACLU is neither American or about liberty"

[sctmom]

This thread is just as approriate as the thread on the Ten Commandments.

 

[evmori]

In my opinion, both should be in question on a Scout forum if they deal with issues other than Scouting.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[NJCubScouter]

Ed Mori, you say a discussion of the ACLU does not belong in a Scouting forum but then immediately discuss it, with your comment that "The ACLU is neither American or about liberty." Is this consistent?

 

On the issue you raise, I think an argument can be made that discussions of issues directly related to the First Amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights (which includes the placement of the 10 Commandments on public property and most of the issues dealt with by the ACLU) do have at least peripheral relevance to Scouting. One of the aims of Scouting is to teach and promote citizenship. I think this requires, among other things, knowledge (by both leaders and eventually by the Scouts) of our basic government documents and how they impact upon our lives. One requirement for the Citizenship in the Nation merit badge is to read and discuss with your counselor the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, among other things. So if, through discussion and debate, some or all of us (including the non-posting readers) gain a greater understanding of these subjects, perhaps it is adequately related to Scouting. Even if you are not a CintheN counselor, you still cannot be harmed by a perspective on the issues that the boys might discuss in the merit badge. And even beyond the merit badge context, citizenship is more than just saluting the flag. It is, in part, knowing what is going on in your country, and why, and having the capacity to advocate changes if they are warranted.

 

[k9gold-scout]

In my younger days I thaught the ACLU did some good things for America, but now their actions prove them to be more anti-american. The ACLU would be happy to have the Boy Scouts reduced to the size of the Royal Rangers and to have a youth group with no spirtual side or strong values take over the #1 youth group in America.

[Bob Russell]

An interesting article on NationalReviewOnline (http://www.nationalreview.com/nr_comment/nr_comment030102.shtml) about the Stumbo family, who are fighting against social worker intrusion into their family. You may recall this is a family whose 2-year old daughter ran naked into her yard and someone reported this to social workers. The family refused to allow the child to be interviewed privately by the social worker, and they have been in court now for several years. According to the article, the Stumbos are represented by attorney Michael Farris, who is also chairman of the Home School Legal Defense Association. The American Civil Liberties Union has filed amicus for the Stumbos. In this case at least, the ACLU and the Home School Legal Defense Association are allies. For those of you who remember, Dedicated Dad in a post under home schooling has identified his uncle Mike Smith as president of the Home School Legal Defense Association.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

After perusing the ACLU website, I do have an observation.

 

In all the cases that the ACLU have been invovled in, apparently the final decision was not made by the ACLU, but by the judge hearing the proceeding.

 

Perhaps some of the bile and vitriol and energy expounded towards the ACLU should go to the court system. The ACLU, like any lawyer, can only argue a case, its up to the court to decide. I am not sure you can argue the ACLU is chaging the laws, only the court system can do that.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Bob Russell]

From FoxNews: "Firefighters who say they were ordered to ride in last year's gay pride parade, despite their moral and religious objections, are threatening to sue the city unless officials stop forcing municipal employees to march in the parade.

 

Steven Brown, executive director of the state American Civil Liberties Union, sent a letter to Fire Chief James Rattigan in January on behalf of three of the firefighters who participated.

"A number of firefighters apparently objected to this assignment, having sincere moral and religious objections to being in such a parade," Brown wrote.

In his letter, Brown demanded a promise from city officials that only willing volunteers be asked to march in the gay pride parade from now on.

"If they're not willing to give that assurance, then we'll have to consider litigation," Brown told The Associated Press." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,46935,00.html

[evmori]

NJCubScouter,

Making a comment and discussing the topic are two different things. A person can make a comment without being involved in a discussion or debate.

 

Ed Mori

Scoumaster

Troop 1

[eisely]

I have no objections to a thread about the ACLU. Believe it or not, many years ago I used to be a small contributor to this organization. When the ACLU was more focused on helping ordinary people suffering from abuses of authority at different levels in different ways, it did a lot of good. My argument with the ACLU today is its emphasis on creating social policy through the courts. The ACLU now seems to take cases primarily for the publicity they generate and the possible impact on policy.

 

If the courts have become politicized, the judiciary has only itself to blame, for its willingness to create policy from the bench. The ACLU has been a big part of this.

[fboisseau]

sctmom.

 

I just thought I would share this story with you. When I was younger, I worked at a grocery store that was unionized, but I was not a member of the union (I live in a right to work state). I got promoted upwards to a new position which I at that time could not handle. I asked the store manager to demote me back to my former position. Since I was a good worker and it was quite evident that I was not mature enought to handle the job I had been promoted to (I was a teenager at the time) he agreed, but had to look into how to do that and while he was checking had me take sometime off work. When he got back to me he told me that the union would not allow him to demote me. I was not a member of the union, I was in total agreement of the demotion, so as far as I was concerned they had no right to get involved. But since the company was beholden to the union his hands was tied. So forgive me if I do not look on unions with the positive light that you seem to have.