Graduating Webolos

[sst3rd]

All through these boards I've read of Packs and/or the parents graduating their Webolos to Troops and how they choose the Troops to which they go to. In our Council, most Troops have a brother Pack that has the same sponsor. I also respect the flexibility discussed as to when to graduate these Webolos Scouts to their Troop. My problem is (I'm the SM), that our Pack is coming upon the third year in a row, of not graduating any Webolos Scouts to our Troop. The Troop has always worked closely with its Pack over the last 25 years. Providing Den Chiefs and joint camping trips have long been a tradition. The Pack has been led by a Den Leader (bogus Cubmaster) whose two sons came through the Pack and Troop program. She decided to stay with the Pack. Unfortunately, her job causes her to be consistently late to meetings, if she's able to show up at all. Parents wait awhile, but then leave. I know all of this, because I'm usually there at the Scout building doing Troop work. Every fall, she winds up reorganizing the Pack when the Night For Scouting Recruitment program happens at the Pack's assigned school. I've encouraged on site training (I arranged the District Trainer to come by) for the other adults, but this leader never follows through. She is trained, but she evidently likes things the way they are, and doesn't care that she's helping the Troop die. This is the Pack leader whose son I had to "release" from the Troop a year ago this past October for outragious behavior problems. Procedures and processes have been used, but the CC and I finally decided to go to our COR. Over several months he visited the Pack meetings and verified everything that I was telling him. He felt, however, that this lady was trying and was dedicated to the Pack. I countered with the fact that the bottom line was that the Pack program was inconsistent and hasn't provided the Troop with a single Webolos graduate for three years. The CC and I wanted the COR to review her commitment to the Pack and Scouting. Why was she still involved? When are the other leaders going to be trained? Is she going to be at the meetings and on time? If not, what's her Plan B? You get the picture. Our Troop has been working all sorts of recruitment programs, and will continue to do so, but we've had little success. Our Scouts are older, and the Troop is small. We have a great program, but the Scouts age out. The remaining Scouts are getting discouraged by the Troop's size. The CC and I feel that our next appropriate step is to officially inform the District Executive of our situation, and let them do their thing. Feelings will be hurt, because I know the Den Leader and COR personally. The COR is a past Cub Leader and his son earned his Eagle with us, and is currently an ASM with us. I'm open to all ideas. We have little to lose.

 

Thanks as always,,,,,

 

sst3rd

[Bob White]

Tough problem sst3rd. I wouldn't give up trying to strengthen your Charter Organizations Pack but in the mean time you need to look out for your troop. You mentioned "brother" packs. I would talk with your District Executive. It would be very unusual for every pack to have a troop assiated with the same charter organization. There are quite probably other packs in your area that you could build relationships with.

 

I wouldn't worry whether or not they had "brother troops" connected to the pack. Several Webelos join different troops or no troops at all even when they have troops at their same location. the reasons are many. Parental disagreements with leaders, inconvenient meeting night, weak program etc...

Any boy who is not in scouting is a potential troop member. Keep your program strong, it is the best recruitment tool you have.

 

Keep bringing the pack's poor health to the attention of the COR. Remember the Cubmaster is not in charge of the pack. They get to serve the pack at the will of the CC and COR. The CC with a strong committee could override many of the problems the CM is causing.

 

Good Luck

[cjmiam]

The crossover rate is has always been extremely low. I think the national average is around 25% or so. I too haven't received any Scouts from our pack for 3 or 4 years. All of my new recruits come from Scouts asking friends at school. A lot of the x-Cub Scouts say they don't want to join the troop because Cub Scouts was boring. With leaders like the one you talk about, I can see why. I think Cub Scouts also burns the parents out. I believe that after six years (if they started as a Tiger) of running to meetings that they need a break.

 

We are up to about 45 Scouts in our troop. My personal opinion is to tell you DE to get the Cub master out of there. However, I also strongly recommend doing some heavy marketing through kids at school. Do a cool event and invite kids to it to just try Scouting. Make sure it's free and make sure it's fun! If you don't have 11 or 12 year olds that can help you market, go to the school and get an address list and send every single kid in grades 6-7 or 5-8 a personal invitation! Yes, it will cost a couple hundred bucks, but if you are serious about recruiting you need to invest some money in marketing. Then once you have a few kids coming, go buy a dirt bike and have a recruiting contest. Whoever gets the most kids to join in the next 4-6 months gets the bike. Or if you have a lot of extra cash, make it a Playstation 2. Im not sure about recruitment incentives, but it certainly works for me. It speaks a language that the kids understand.

 

You're gonna have to wait a while with the pack even if the DE gets them working again, so I wouldn't count on them for providing you with Scouts. You already said you have a good program, so I assume that once you get kids they will stay.

 

It's partly for reasons like this that I tell parents not to put their kids in Cub Scouting. I know it's sad, but I get real frustrated when I learn that a kid doesnt join my troop because of a poor experience in Cub Scouting. Thats not how this game is supposed to work!

 

[Bob White]

FYI

Don't count on the DE removing the Cubmaster. Unless an unit volunteer misuses children or unit funds professionals have no authority.

 

Unit leaders are selected and approved by Charter Organizations and only they have the authority to take such action.

[NJCubScouter]

First of all, it sounds to me like perhaps too much weight is being placed upon this Cubmaster -- perhaps by the other parents in the pack not being active, and perhaps by the Cubmaster herself in not knowing how to accept help and how to use volunteers, and most likely a combination. My pack has a similar problem, though not to the degree you describe.

 

So what I did was look through your post with an eye to, What tasks is this Cubmaster trying to perform, or being expected to perform, that someone else should be handling? As I am sure you know, the Cubmaster is in charge of carrying out the program, while the committee is in charge of administration. I will be the first to "admit" that my pack is one of those where this is only true on paper. We do not have anyone interested in being on the committee, so the Cubmaster and I (an assistant cubmaster), together with our treasurer, really perform the majority of the committee functions in addition to our official duties. Things have also gotten "backwards" with our chartering organization, to the point where the CM and I just selected a new CR -- the position that is supposed to select US.

 

So I know all about responsibilities falling where they shouldn't, and adapting what's in "the book" to the "facts on the ground." One thing that did jump out at me was training. You say that leaders did not get trained because the CM did not "follow through." Without getting out my Leader Book, I am pretty sure that this is NOT the CM's responsibility. The CM should encourage other leaders to be trained and should of course be trained herself, but someone else should be in charge of getting the dates, setting up special meetings, getting the Fast Start videos, making sure the VCR is working, whatever. Under the old book this was a committee member function (and it may still be), but now there is a new position called Pack Trainer. This also partially replaces the old "coach" position, but I believe the thrust of the new position is to make sure everyone gets trained, rather than doing the actual training. So the pack CC should find someone to take on this function, with or without the new official title, or do it him/herself.

 

Another thing that jumped out at me was that this Cubmaster apparently is an essential ingredient to having a pack meeting. If she cannot be there, other parents wait awhile and then leave. This is bad. Where are the other leaders? Is there an assistant cubmaster? Even if not, how can the den leaders sit by and watch a meeting crumble away like that? As crazy as things sometimes get in my pack, in my 3.5 years as a parent in the pack and then as a leader, no pack meeting has ever simply dissolved like that. (Den meetings, yes, and we have had a pack picnic or two on the schedule that de-materialized, but never a pack meeting.) SOMEONE would step forward and take charge, and now it is someone's job (mine) to do that if the CM is detained somewhere. A related issue is, are there program planning meetings of the leaders? They should have an annual program plan (which admittedly my pack does not) and monthly meetings (which we do.) Are the dens making presentations at the meetings? By the time you get to a pack meeting, everybody should know who is supposed to be doing what, and in good months, my pack actually has at least a handwritten agenda of what is happening at the meeting. So it shouldn't all fall on the Cubmaster; she is supposed to be leading the program, not BE the program. In fact, if things are REALLY going by the book, the Cubmaster should have little to do at pack meetings other than being the master of ceremonies, introducing the den leaders who put on the presentations, the advancement chair to handle the awards, etc. This, of course, is mainly theory in many units, including mine.

 

I know from painful and current experience how difficult it is to get parents involved as leaders. But the CM does not need a huge group, often one or two people stepping up to the plate will make a huge difference. Maybe what this person needs most of all is an assistant cubmaster to work very closely with her, know what is going on, and do what she is not doing. (I visit my CM, just me, 2 to 3 times a month to help make sure nothing major is falling through the cracks, and to have conversations that you can't really have at leaders' meetings.) This could even give the CM a chance to realize that perhaps someone else should be doing the job. But it would be in the name of "help," not the painful and difficult process of trying to remove a leader who does not want to leave and has the CO's support.

 

And to get back to your own personal concern for your troop, perhaps that assistant cubmaster should be an ASM in your troop who is a former leader in the pack -- since they are sister units I am sure there is at least one such person. That way you would have a liaison looking out for the interests of both units -- and above all else, the boys.

 

On a related note, an entire chapter of the new edition of the Cub Scout Leader Book (chapter 22, I just pulled it out) deals with the Webelos to Scout transition plan. It describes a partnership among the CM, Webelos leaders and troop leaders to get the boys transitioned into a troop. This would fit right in with one of your ASM's working with the pack.

 

Finally, if the CM is not cooperative in all this, I would probably contact a commissioner first before getting the DE involved. I would look at it as a situation in need of "help" and not one involving official actions. As I suggested before, the more the CM sees outsiders trying to help, the better chance she will get the message that her performance is lacking, and will either shape up or ship out.

 

Good luck.

[ScouterPaul]

We were an "orphan pack" until this year. We have started up our own Troop. I've been involved as a parent and leader for three years. During that time we graduated 23 Webelos. I am aware of only 1 boy who is still active and he is close to dropping out. I've been a Webelos leader for two years and out of 9 Webelos 2's this year all 9 are joining our new Troop. We (the Cubmaster, myself and the other Webelos leader) feel that our success is due entirely to turning the Webelos program from a "school" type program to an outdoors one. We have 4 Webelos campouts every year and practice Scout skills (cooking, compass, knots ect.) every meeting. We sacrificed the number of activity badges that the boys earned. But they were having fun and doing what the boys liked doing.

 

Sst3rd I think that your answer is with the COR who is also an ASM. The COR selects the Cubmaster perhaps he/she can recruit someone to take over which might breath new life into the pack. I assume that the Troop and Pack meet on different nights. Perhaps you can hold some Troop activities on the nights that the Pack meets. Let the Cub Scouts see the older Boys Scouts doing "neat and cool" stuff. Sometimes you have to take the bull by the horns.

 

Good luck and keep up the good work. Your Scouts will benifit from your efforts.