Do you home school, public school or private school?

[berkshirescouter]

enouf said on thiss subjext

[andrews]

I prefer to call them government schools, which is what they are since they are government controlled, guided, etc. (They nod to parental involvement, but if you stand against their programs you will see how quickly you are not really in charge.)

 

Brad

[NJCubScouter]

OK DedicatedDad, I'll take you on your word that your use of "publik" instead of "public" was completely unintentional, after all, a Scout is trustworthy, and as I said before, I don't comment on typos or spelling since I make my own share of errors. I was just wondering, since I don't recall ever seeing you misspell anything else.

[sctmom]

Andrews writes:

"They nod to parental involvement, but if you stand against their programs you will see how quickly you are not really in charge."

 

Some (not all) private schools also only nod to parental involvment, but money talks. Take a stand and not provide the big bucks over and beyond tuition and see how quickly you are in charge. Donate money for new football equipment and you can have your way! Also, sports stars have more pull at some schools (public and private).

 

been there, done that, got the t-shirt --- as a student

 

[andrews]

At least you have the opportunity to pick a different school in that case! Try that without paying any tuition and being assigned to a specific government school.

 

Brad

[KoreaScouter]

I haven't jumped in here in a while, but I'm detecting a recurring sentiment here that is a little unsettling, at least to me. Here goes:

 

- What does our "duty to Country" mean in the Scout Oath; and our "rights and responsibilities as citizens" requirement #5 for First class mean? Could one meaning be that we improve the government if we can? If our public schools are government schools as many of you refer to them, what is your duty to those schools? Simply to recruit at them, but throw your hands up, not allow your kids to attend them, and not try to improve them either? Hmmm?

 

- Have you looked at the requirements for Scholarship and Citizenship in the Community (Eagle Required) Merit Badges lately? They not-at-all-subtly reinforce Duty to Country by requiring Scouts to learn locations of government entities and attending government functions such as school board meetings. Why is this? Do you think they want us, as Scouters, to start teaching our lads to care about AND GET INVOLVED IN our government at all levels? Might that be why Citizenship in the Community is Eagle-Required?

 

- Personal education decisions are just that, personal. If you want to homeschool, go ahead, If you want to private school, go ahead. If you want to send him to boarding school (?), go ahead. However, I would submit to you that disparaging public schools (our local governments), and at the same time, encouraging completion of Citizenship in the Community and repeating the Oath, probably warrants at least a look in the mirror...

 

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[slontwovvy]

Most of the Scouts in my troop go to private school (probably 35 out of 50). I support public schools in general, but I think they need reform and healthy competition (more so than now). Does that make me a bad citizen? No. One must look at the fact though--rarely is a reputation given without some hint of truth in it. Maybe the public schools honestly need to change. In my area, the three private schools (one Lutheran, one Catholic, one non-denominational) have a higher average ACT score with a greater percentage of each class taking it, and kids who switch to the public schools are often a year ahead. That, in my opinion, would signify a need for change.

[KoreaScouter]

I'll readily concede that many schools are in trouble, public and private -- I'm not arguing that point. Likewise, many other programs of our local, state and federal governments could benefit from some reform or at least open debates on public policy. My question from a macro level is simply this: if one of our three aims is to foster citizenship, how does disparaging and withdrawing from our school systems foster citizenship in our Scouts, when the expectation would seem to be that we take an opposite path? What are we teaching them by our words and deeds? As I've said before, each family's educational decisions are personal, and I'm not suggesting that we collectively "take one for the team" by putting our kids into bad schools so we'll be seen as "walking the walk". But, as Scouters, what sets a better example for our Scouts: trying to fix a broken (as perceived) system through active participation in reform efforts, or shrilly proclaiming the system is hopelessly broken and conspiring against us, and we therefore want nothing to do with it -- except to recruit their kids and meet on their property...

 

Slot, as a military guy, I got a chuckle when I read your post about supporting public schools "in general". We have a little saying about direct support versus general support -- general support is the same as no support...

[OldGreyEagle]

I in no way wish to defend some of the "social engineering" that has been discussed here and on other threads that occur in some public schools, however I have to respond to slontwovvy comment about public school performance relative to public school performance especially on the ACT. And I have no malice at all toward slontwovvy, I just have a few points I would like to have considered.

 

A private school for the most part denotes high parental concern/involvement in the pupil's education. Whether in Public or Private school, the most effective educational strategy a teacher can employ is a concerned and active parent.

 

Private schools tend to be a bit pricey (or they are in my area at least) and only the upper middle class to the most wealthy of the community can afford it. Since children tend to follow their parents in education level and economic level (I said tend, not follow, there are certainly exceptions)it makes sense these students would aspire to the higher levels their own parents have attained.

 

And finally, my own little pet peeve, and I openly declare it a prejudice I have against private high schools. Many like to fashion themselves as prep schools for college, in particular religious schools. They love to publish their test scores and college acceptance rates and compare them to public schools. I find that completeley outrageous. The private schools usually do not accept marginal academic students, they do not have a population of parents who seemingly dont care if the kids live or die. I have public school teacher friends (another source of my bias) that admit many times they hope to get through a class without vulgar and profane language being used and when they say something about it, the parents use worse language on the teacher. The public schools provide education to learning disabled students, something most private schools dont do.

 

Public Schools now have many students who have English as a second language. If the parents use the tongue of the old country at home, and the kid only speaks english at school, how do you think he will do on his ACT?

 

Could the public school system be improved? Of course!

Could public school teachers be more accountable for their results? Absoulutely!

Can public schools manipulate their student population to attain the best results? Never!

 

To compare standardized test scores between a private school and public school is like, using the old cliche, apples and oranges, actually its more like apples and a mud puddle, they are just different.

To accurately compare the two, compare students in the same economic brackets with the same level of parental invovlement to each other and see how they match up.

 

And I say this having a heavy background in Catholic Education, Public and private school? they are not the same animal

 

[andrews]

Among other things:

 

However, I would submit to you that disparaging public schools (our local governments), and at the same time, encouraging completion of Citizenship in the Community and repeating the Oath, probably warrants at least a look in the mirror...

 

I completely disagree. Helping make my country better does not require me to sacrifice my children in a system that is designed to produce meek and mild servants to the government state. (See its origins in 19th century Prussia.)

 

I am doing my part to train a new generation of leaders who will (hopefully) help influence society for the better. And the evidence is that homeschoolers, in general, make more responsible adults who will then be able to have a positve effect on society.

 

If being a Scout required blind worship of a faulty government school system, I would turn all my awards in tomorrow, including my Eagle!

 

The government does a wide variety of things I oppose. Part of being a good citizen lies in speaking out against such injustices, not in blind observence of them.

 

Brad

[KoreaScouter]

Brad;

 

Methinks you're in a bit of a defensive crouch here.

 

I never suggested you should put your kid in a bad school as a symbol of support for your local system. In fact, if you read my post again, you'll see it for yourself. Nor did I criticize yours or anyone else's decision to homeschool or not to homeschool -- I've repeatedly said it's a personal decision not subject to anyone else's criticism.

 

I'd recommend caution when asserting that the goal of a school system is to...what was it you said? "Produce meek and mild servants to the government state"? Sounds a little too heavy on the conspiracy-theory argument...Proletariat of the world, unite? All kidding aside, one person's "meek and mild servant to the government state" is another person's "good citizen"...guess it depends on your point of view and how many unmarked U.N. helicopters are following you around. Sorry for the wisecrack, I'm just enjoying this way too much. Bear in mind that the blind obedience to authority Brad thinks is fostered in schools is a mind set we're accused of fostering in BSA in general. Again, I see it as fostering responsible, thinking citizens, whereas I guess you see it as creating an army of zombies who do whatever big brother tells them...or am I incorrectly paraphrasing your comments?

 

BTW, you're not a Citizenship in the Community Merit Badge counselor, are 'ya? (Editor's note: I've got a big grin on my face here -- please don't suspend my forum privileges...please?)

[sctmom]

I chuckled as I read OGE's last post about how private schools have higher test grades, richer students, etc.

Let me repeat something that has already been said "location, location, location."

 

I graduated from a private school about 20 years ago. Out of 18 that graduated that year, most never even took the SAT. I can think of 4 others who took college courses. I think one actually got her 4 year college degree. I got my 4 year degree plus some more. We were not rich by any means. Most of the parents were squeaking by to get that tuition money. There are many other private schools like that in the south. There is one within a mile of my house right now that is like that. It is run by a local church. I've seen their recruitment flyer, it no where mentions test grades -- it's focus is on religion. Most of the kids there are from blue-collar families.

 

At the other end, I live near a major city that does have the type of private schools you refer to. It also has some public schools that produce very high numbers of college students. Why? Like you said, their parents are college educated, the parents are executives, nothing less is expected of these kids. On a side note, a lot of them have died in car accidents each year because those BMW's and Jaguars are just way too fast for the 16 year old owner!

 

I went to private school for 11 years. I was the valedictorian and no one talked to me about college, scholarships, career planning, nothing! There are many more schools like that one that still exist today.

[slontwovvy]

OGE,

 

Your opinion is fine. Still, I believe (in my situation at least) that you are incorrect. Mine is an upper-middle class community, without much need for ESL. The playing field is pretty even.

 

You're forgetting one simple fact--all this does it pit the college-bound public schoolers against the college-bound private schoolers, a reasonable comparison. I am not including the mentally disabled children who are not going to college, and most likely people who are in ESL are not attending as well. I am comparing those who are college bound. In the private school's case, that's 99%, while in the public school, that's less than 40%.

 

As for "exclusive admissions"--in my area it can't happen, simply because it's still a small area. It's a small school. We will sometimes get students that the public schools kicked out; it's the Christian thing to do. Your opinion is very biased on this, as is mine. I'd just like you to consider what you're saying.

[andrews]

KoreaScouter,

 

I apologize if I misunderstood your post.

 

As to the purpose of public schools, you need to look at their origins, especially in Prussia of the late 1800s.

 

Whether it sounds like a conspiracy theory is irrelevant. Their purpose is far from what some claimed. They certainly aren't doing a good job created an intelligent populace.

 

- "Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you." :)

 

Brad

[SagerScout]

OK, I couldn't vote because my answer is both. My older son is a senior in a public high school that has served him reasonably well; he's enjoyed being there and is popular with both the faculty (most of them) and the kids. It's a good thing he enjoys it because if he doesn't pull it together in senior English he'll be there one more semester.... He is diagnosed ADHD but has always tested 5 or 6 years above grade level in all skills, so has never had any Special Ed accomodations. I refuse to manage his homework so when he doesn't finish it or fails to turn it in, he gets a 0. Yes, these are symptoms of his ADHD, and if I wanted to go fight it out for him he might get an IEP that would help him keep his act together. But I don't. He's old enough and mature enough to either fight his own battles with his teachers or take the consequences of not getting his homework done. He's going to be fine in life, he has already worked as a successful computer programmer, he understands compound interest and will not get into trouble with credit cards, he does not drink, smoke, do drugs or believe in sex before marriage. I am blessed.

 

Number 2 son I educate at home. He also tests far above grade level in all skills (math comprehension at 12.7 when he was half-way through 5th grade, reading the same, writing was only 10.3 that testing round....it was his weak spot.) However, he DID qualify for Special ed because he had an anxiety disorder that caused him to refuse to go to school and required him to be in a small class setting. After 2 years of him earning candy in middle school by completing worksheets that he literally could have done at age 6 or 7, and the special ed teacher happy that he was "compliant," I asked when they were going to start him in a curriculum that was anywhere near his ability level. They told me, completely serious, that since he was so far above grade level they had no requirement to even try to educate him at his level. In other words, they were going to just wait for his age to catch up to his ability to start trying to teach him anything. We withdrew him from 9th grade when it was clear he was crashing and burning there, and the same attitude seemed prevalent.

 

At home, he builds robots and studies geometry online; he's just volunteered at the local library and he takes fiddle (but doesn't practice nearly as much as I'd like). Free from the pressures of high school he's more courteous, more cooperative, more relaxed, and reads more. He takes less medication, and his asthma is much improved. And he does have more time to work on Scouting merit badges, many of which are wonderful jumping off points for more advanced study.

 

My daughter is usually a straight A student in public middle school although this last progress report there were a few bobbles. She is learning some social skills that I abhor there, including how to make fun of slower kids, make fun of kids whose clothes aren't right, and exclude friends from her group based on truly trivial criteria. We're working like crazy on tolerance, and in some ways I wish she would home-school also.

 

BTW, BOTH sons had much better SKILLS than the daughter at the same age, although daughter's GRADES have always been very good and the boys' were not. IT was a shock to me (I always had good grades and was smug about it) to find out that grades have very little correlation with comprehension. I do not grade my homeschooler, and am fortunate to live in Texas where there is very little regulation of homeschoolers.

 

We are Christian BTW but pretty liberal, and prefer to teach love-and-tolerance together.