Being Trustworthy

[sctmom]

Wasn't sure if I should post this here or under general program.

 

As a scout and/or scouter how do you handle this situation? How far do you go?

 

While watching a recent community league game of basketball, I see a young man playing that I know (or at least was told by himself and his mother last year) is on a team where he is at least 1 year too old to be playing. He should have moved up to the next age group. The kids are grouped by age, 2 ages at a time. Like 7-8, 9-10, 11-12, 13-14. So this boy who will be 12 in 2 months is playing against 9 and 10 year olds. He is no longer in scouts. Either his parents lied to me a year ago (with no benefit) about his age or they lied this year to get him on this team.

 

If a scout saw this and of course realized "this is wrong, he lied and his parents lied." What would you tell that scout to do? What would you do as an adult? This lie is unfair to other boys, especially those who are 9 years old (my son not being in that category). One reason for the age cutoffs is about maturity, not just size. Do you just walk away? Do you try to make the world a better place? Or is this just not a battle to fight?

 

[Glenn]

Sctmom,

 

What I would do in your situation would be to approach his coach privately. Explain that you have heard that this boy is too old and wanted him to verify this. If he comes back and says he checked this out, then you have two choices. First, call the commissioner of the league and ask them to verify or second, leave it go.

 

Personally, if the coach verified to me that he knows the child is of the correct age, I would let it go.

 

Just my two cents.

[evmori]

sctmom,

I don't know if I would say anything to the coach. I probably wouldn't unless I had hard evidence the boy was in the wrong age group. If I did, I would turn it over to the league not the coach.

 

I would tell my Scouts that what this boy & his parents are doing is wrong and what it is teaching the boy is wrong. I would stress "A Scout is trustworthy". I would explain that sometimes doing the right thing isn't fun and isn't always easy.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Dedicated Dad]

Bump to Glenn and Ed

[eisely]

You have to be careful what you say to others. You run the risk of incurring a liability for defamation, particularly on emotional issues like this. If I were to say anything to anybody about it, I would probably comment to the league leadership. There is a good chance that the coach is in on the scam. Talking about this in front of a bunch of other youth is an invitation for disaster.

 

If the boy were still active in scouts in my unit, I would certainly take it up with him and his parents.

[Bob Russell]

Since the boy was in scouts, I assume the troop or the pack has his original application to join scouts. This will have his birthdate on it. I would check this first to see if there is documentation as to his age.

[sctmom]

The boy was in our pack for a short time. His mom and dad kept "forgetting" to bring his registration form and money to meetings. Then he turned 11 years old. Since it was spring, I talked to his mother at length one night about him possibly going on to Boy Scouts, since it was traditional cross over time. He was the only 5th grader in my first year Webelos. I gave her information about troops in the area and she acted very interested and polite.

 

Another reason I ask is knowing that this does happen a lot, and as boys get older they catch on that Johnny has is driver's license but plays on the 14 year old team.

 

I emailed the head of the recreation department a few weeks ago, simply stating that I felt a boy one the stated team may be over the age limit, would they check into this. I have had no response. I left my complete name and my phone number. If I'm going to stand up for something I will stand up. It doesn't make a lot of difference as far as the season goes because the season is almost over. But it makes me wonder how often are they turning their heads.

 

I'm out of town for the next few days so I will put it aside until I return. Then I will call the rec department and politely ask about the policies.

 

[eisely]

I don't think there is a youth sports league in the United States where this hasn't come up at some time. It surprises me that the people running the league allowed this to happen. Several years I was deeply involved in the management of a large soccer league (AYSO). When this was discovered, people were disqualified, and we required documentary proof of age at all future registrations. After the first year of this a data base was built up, and youth who had been in the league the year before were not required to provide such documentation.

 

We probably ought to do something like this in scouts to prevent kids who are too young from getting in over their heads.

[cjmiam]

At this point I'd ask myself what good can be gained for that child. Even though his parents may have done it deliberately, you already did more than your part by e-mailing the appropriate people a while back. The season is coming to an end within a couple weeks if you are on the same schedule we are. I think the Monday after that last tournament I'd talk with someone, but not through e-mail. Sounds to me like his parents need a little lesson on fairness. I don't think it would be best for the boy to remove him at this stage in the game.

[KoreaScouter]

sctmom;

 

I don't know what part of the country you live in, but the situation you describe is VERY common in high schools in football-crazed areas. Parents will deliberately hold a son back a grade so he'll be bigger/stronger/more coordinated when he's a junior & senior and get more college scout attention. My son played football when we lived in Virginia (doesn't overseas -- no program here until they're 15), and the hold-back timing was a common topic on the sidelines and in the bleachers.

 

No reason to suspect it doesn't take place in other sports, too. After all, if he's a year older than the rest of the team, he's probably bigger, taller, has better motor skills, and gets more points/assists/rebounds too...right? Sounds like the family's getting started on his college scout video...do they tape the games? You may laugh, but I've seen it with 7-year old boys...

[OldGreyEagle]

I am not sure I am following this thread. Are you guys (& girls) saying that its ok for an older kid to be in a younger age bracket sports program because it happens all the time? And at this point in the season (that is late) it is of no use to take the kid out of the league? I want to be sure I understand

[cjmiam]

I'm just saying that I believe the blame lies on the parents. It isn't sctmom's responsibility to do something. I have no clue what their rules are or who signed the kid up for the program, but my guess is that there is an adult that should have been more responsible than the kid to make sure this didn't happen. I personally think it would hurt the kid more to take him out of this mostly for fun and skill development program. Instead, I would give his so-called parents a piece of my mind. This is almost as bad as the so-called fathers that build the pinewood derby cars for their kids! Some parents really know how to teach their kids well.

[Chippewa29]

It is very true about the parents being at fault for this lack of integrity. Many parents don't realize just what they are teaching their kids by telling even small lies. I heard a story once about a man who took his two sons, ages 7 and 5, to the movies. When they got there, the price was $5 for adults, $4 for age seven and up, and $2 for kids six and under. When the ticket seller asked them for tickets, the dad said, "I need one adult, one $2 ticket, but the older ones 7, so we'll need to get a $4 ticket for him." The ticket seller looked surprised and said the the dad, "You could have told me the older one was six and saved two dollars. I wouldn't have known the difference." The dad looked down at his sons and then said to the ticket teller, "I know, but they would have."

 

Many people don't realize that their lies, even small little ones that don't really hurt someone, play a big role in determining who are children become.

[KoreaScouter]

You're all absolutely right. And, if you've ever seen any professional athlete "behaving badly", you have to know that such behavior was ingrained in him/her from his first days in his sport as a little kid, when he was taught by example that rules don't matter if you're talented...