ScouterPaul Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 Tread carefully NJ or you will be labeled a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted February 19, 2002 Share Posted February 19, 2002 Scouter Paul writes: Tread carefully NJ or you will be labeled a troll. Not to worry, someone called me that once on America Online when I first started posting. I ignored it and kept on stating my opinions. I have learned to take a little name-calling in stride, after all I have 2 teenaged daughters. I actually enjoy it when people call me names in a debate, it just demonstrates the lack of substance in their arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutruud Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 This is the most hypothetical discussion I have ever seen. Gays must have a terrible live in the states if these are the thoughts of avarage americans... I think that most users here are americans? I know that the European Scout Association resently officially declared that gays are more then welcome in scouting. It was as unanimous decision. Where in our scout law does it say: 'thay shall not be gay?' I never read this. It is also against the United Nations Human Rights to descriminate on sexual orientation. What is happening here??? I am not gay, but I have gay friends and I have never had any kind of problem with that. I am shocked by these very intollerant discussion. A scout should be a friend of all other scouts, black or white, moslim or Christian, boy or girl, gay or not gay, clever or not clever, handicapt or not, etc. That is what I think we should teach our members. And, if being gay is bad, do we exclude all members who make a mistake? If so, I can send all my scouts away today. ScoutRuud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 ScoutRuud, Simply put, the United States of America is not Europe. We're not perfect, but we've done pretty well without much help from our European friends. That's not meant to be an insult. It is fairly accurate. You can turn your nose up at us all you want, but that doesn't make you, Europe, or even the United Nations, right. Time, and God, will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted March 17, 2002 Share Posted March 17, 2002 I thought the issue before the Supreme Court was whether or not the BSA had the RIGHT to exclude gays. Should BSA have the RIGHT to exclude gays? If you answer no, think about this. When I joined Cub Scouts, in the 1950's, homosexuality was a crime in some places, a sickness in most and a civil right nowhere. What do we do in "X" years when the pedophiles unite and have a political voice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 See Long, I dont correlate Homosexuals with Pedophiles. Pedophiles can be Homosexual or Heterosexual. They prey on those smaller, younger and vulnerable who cant give consent to their molestation. Adults on the other hand, are different and as long as they only engage other willing partners, I am not sure a crime is present. And while I dimly remember the 50's, I beleive Eisenhower was in the whitehouse, peace and prosperity reigned for most of it and it was illegal in some states for blacks to drink from a "whites" only water fountain or sit at a "whites" only luncheon counter. As far as civil rights go, many states had literacy tests a person had to pass when they went to register to vote and somehow blacks failed at an astounding rate. In retrospect, the Jim Crow laws were seen as a necessity to keeping the social order and today we wonder what those "people were thinking" The world today is a much different place than it was in the 1950's and it will be different in the 2050's I wonder what subject the the citizens in 2050 will contemplate and say "what were they thinking" when they think about us. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Please don't misunderstand my concern. I donot corelate pedophilia with homosexuality in any sense, I merely referenced pedophilia because it is a group which if united could in "x" years demand acceptence just as gays have. I don't advocate a return to the fifties, I don't remember hiding under my desk during Air Raid drills with any kind of pleasent nostalgia. I only mean to say that in my scouting lifetime homosexuality has gone from being a crime, again only in some places, to being a civil right. To me this is a significant change in attitude. Did you have the same thoughts about homosexuality in the 50's that you hold today? You say you remember the fifties so I ask would you have advocated the same approach to a gay leader in Scouting then as you do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 I am not sure what I said meant I advocated a Gay scoutleader, at least I didnt intend to. I respect BSA's right to have its own membership requirements. I just dont think homosexuality is the bane to civilization as is expressed at times and whether gay or straight, sexuality is something best left out of scouting and in the scout's family or church whenever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 The biggest problem I have with this issue, (my personal opinion about homosexuality aside) is that the people who want to make scouting change on this topic, want to do so for political reasons. They want to use the scouting program to legitamize a social/political stand. This program is about leadership and citizenship development, not politics. I will reject anyone's efforts to use the BSA for their own self-promotion and self interest. This is not about the boys, and that is what makes it wrong. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdyer56 Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 I have to agree with Bob on this one. Could not have said it any better. Tim Dyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster7 Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Bob, We're on a roll. I agree with your assessment. Although, I would add one item to your description of BSA - This program is about leadership and citizenship development, character building, and not politics. It's nice to find some common ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 I know this may be a reach but I have a question and I think this may be the best place to ask. On Friday I saw an interview with a gay male couple who had adopted two children. Apparently some states allow this and some dont and some that have allowed it are considering banning/retracting it. They were arguing, naturally, for allowing more gay couples to adopt. My Question is, does anybody know if there has been a study on the sexual orientation of the children of gay couples? And next, depending on the outcome would that prove/disprove the inborn trait/consious choice argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slontwovvy Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 OGE, There really is little reliable research on the topic, as most people have strong feelings on the topic either way. As such, there is little research on anything related to homosexuals that you can trust. Those studies done by conservative groups do find differences, while those done by liberal organizations will ardently disagree. Personally, I see it from the conservative side, but by looking around, you can see many who do not share my views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 OGE, Funny you should ask about this. Yesterday (3/18/2002) the Focus on the Family radio show was discussing this very topic. It was said there is very little information available due to this being a new thing. Dr. Dobson - the show's host - did feel (and this is his opinion) that children adopted by gay couples would be more predisposed to becoming gay than children adopted by hertosexual couples. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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