Judge rules for boy in Boy Scouts case

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

...

"Name several things that are stable in your (apparantly atheistic) view of life. And why are they that way and not some other. You cannot do that, and that is my point. For wherever you draw the line, there is no reason it couldn't be drawn in a different place."

 

The same is true of a theistic view of life, as I've already shown. Some theists say polygamy is immoral, some say it's moral.

[sctmom]

I was taught right from wrong without the Bible or Church. In fact many of the regular church goers I saw growing up were committing "sins" more often than my non-churched parents.

 

Some of the things I was taught were honesty, no stealing, no lies, politeness, work hard, no handouts, take care of your self, charity to those who really need it (sick, old, children), no drinking, no smoking, sex only within a marriage, no cussing, no cheating.

Hmmm, am I missing anything? Didn't need a Bible to tell me to do these things. I know non-Christians who don't need a bible to tell them these things.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Well, see, all we have to do is ask a quesiton and we get an answer. I hadnt heard of that explanation before, but thats the beeauty of this forum, scouters exchanging information while always remaining helpful, friendly, courteous and kind

[OldGreyEagle]

Just a thought, one that struck me, I thought the Apostle's and Nicene creed were authored by the Roman Catholic church to spell out their beliefs. Why would another faith use the basis of another's religion. Are all the christians who go by these creeds Roman Catholic? If your gonna beleive the creed, why not join that faith?

[Dedicated Dad]

I thought the Apostle's and Nicene creed were authored by the Roman Catholic church to spell out their beliefs. Due to these clauses?

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church,or We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. This is catholic with a lower case c which means the universal Christian Church. If you are going back to when Constantine accepted Christianity Id be hard pressed to say whether the RCC was established before the Holy Roman Empire, perhaps youd know better than I would?

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Never thought of the catholic in the creeds as with a lower case c. Interesting thought

[Dedicated Dad]

Interesting thought I wish I could take credit for it.

[Glenn]

Dedicated Dad,

 

The Catholic Church (we prefer not to refer to it as the Roman Catholic Church as this was meant to be an insult when it first came into use) was started with the first Pope Peter. And we have a line of popes from Peter up to the present day. Constantine removed the persecutions of the Catholics of his day and the Church grew considerably at that time.

 

By the way, I too found it interesting that a non-Catholic church used the Apostle's Creed. Mostly because the creed we recite at Mass includes the belief in the Communion of Saints, which I believe is only part of the Catholic Church. I then went to the Catholic Encyclopedia and read of the history of the Nicene Creed. The original version did NOT have the communion of saints. Thanks for teaching me more about my faith.

[Dedicated Dad]

was started with the first Pope Peter

Yes, I think that is a matter of some controversy. That would mean that the Catholic Church was established on or around 32 AD and its hard to imagine that it was more than a catholic Church so soon after His crucifixion. Some say the first real Pope was Constantine, though he is not recognized as such much less a Pope. Actually I was hoping OGE might weigh in on this one, I believe he said he spent three years at a seminary. the belief in the Communion of Saints, which I believe is only part of the Catholic Church. Not exclusively, OLE Martin Luthers apple didnt fall far from the Catholic tree. Im no expert but I believe the Presbyters, Lutherans, Episcopalians, and all the Anglicans all are similar in rites and rituals. Paul's letters clarify how the Apostolic Church is the succession of spiritual authority from the apostles. The Apostles Creed defined the confessional response to faith in their creed: "We believe in the communion of saints." One of my Rectors favorite holidays is All-Saints Day. On the following Sunday the children are encouraged to dress up as their favorite Saint, its somewhat of a tongue in cheek spoof on Halloween.

 

 

[Glenn]

You're correct that the term "Catholic Church" was not in use during the first century as it was just beginning. But the Church was ruled by Saint Peter and his successive Popes have led the Church through the years. Here is the list http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

 

Constantine was not a Pope, of course. As I said before, he simply stopped the persecutions of Catholics and allowed Christianity to grow enormously. I will NOT get into a religious argument with you on a Scouter forum, especially since your beliefs about morality so closely resemble mine.

 

By the way, I truly admire your dedication to your faith that you have demonstrated on this forum. I am sorry I was not following closely during the gay agenda and atheist arguments. I would have backed you up on every post (that I have read so far - still trying to catch up).

[OldGreyEagle]

I always say I am Roman Catholic because in the area where I live a person may be Roman Catholic, Polish Catholic, Byzantine Catholic, Latin Rite Catholic or Marionite Rite Catholic.

 

Peter IS the first Pope. When Jesus told Peter, whose previous name was Simon, that his name would be Peter and "on that Rock I will build my church" Jesus made him the first leader of the church on earth.

 

Jesus made all the aposles priests at the last supper when he told them to celebrate the Passover meal "in remembrance of me". Finally, on during the Ascension, he told the Aposrles to go forth and teach all nations, whatever they bound on earth would be bound in heaven and whatever was loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven. These are the foundation of the Catholic Church.

I hadnt heard that ROman Catholic was derogatory, but that may be the case. I remember in the 60's my father the convert being called a papist.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I think Anglicans and Episcopalians are the same thing. They are parts of what started as the Church of England. The Church of England of course got started when Henry VIII (Catholic) couldnt get a divorce so he declared himself head of the "Catholic" church in England, gave himself a divorce and started as good a reason for separation of Church and state as you will ever find. Thus started the Anglican chruch (Anglican from Anglo as in Anglo-Saxon)

 

The reason Lutherans have similiar cermonies as Catholics is because Martin Luther started off as a Catholic monk. he didnt like the direction the church was going. During the medieval times the church, and there was only one christian church in Europe, that with the Pope as the leader was full of corruption. Bishops were selling priesthoods, Cardinals were selling Bishop positions and the image of the portly (read fat) church offical was born. They were eating plenty while the peasants starved. There is a story one Pope had it arranged so after he died his son would succeed him. Martin Luther pointed out this corruption and said it wasnt right. His superiors tried to squelch him, but is didnt work. Luther left the corruption and started his "own" church. This more or less sparked the reformation where numerous "Protestant" sects were formed. Did you ever wonder why Christian Faiths that are not Catholic are called Prostestant? Because their founders were protesting the church in Rome. Some of the new faiths kept with the Catholic ways because it was familair to them, others broke away completely and adopted new styles of worship. Faced with the reformation the Leaders of the Catholic church "cleaned up their act" and returned to what it was supposed to be, and is today. In another thread I said any any organizaiton with humans in it will demonstrate human characteristics. The Catholic Church is the organization I reference when I say this.

 

Faced with the mass defections it suffered and so corrupt from within, it would have been logical for the Catholic church to fall apart or to be weakened beyond recognition. BUT, the fact it stayed together and today is one of the worlds largest religions proves to me it has divine backing.

 

 

[sctmom]

I always wondered why the Protestants didn't like the Catholics. Learn stuff all the time on this board.

 

I was raised in a very small southern town where everyone was Baptist or Methodist. A LOT of very small Baptist churches (20 or 30 members). I never could tell the difference between the two, went to some of both. Stopped going to church when I was in my early teens because I wanted to learn more about God and the other teens were there to socialize. Guess you could say peer pressure kicked me out and my parents didn't make me go. As an adult I have attended church and still do a lot of reading about religion and the Bible.

 

Since many of you are Catholic you may find this at least interesting. There are still a lot of people that belive the Catholic church is evil. I was taught 20 years ago that the Catholics were heathens that worshipped the Pope not God and they would not go to heaven. Seriously that is exactly how it was told to me from a Baptist preacher. Didn't believe it then as a teenager and sure don't believe it now. My father still insists that Catholics are bad and he dislikes the Methodists because of their creed that says "catholic" with a small "C". This is due to his mis-information about the difference in the words and the beliefs of each.

 

My sister and I have discussed how few meangingful rituals and traditions our Baptist/Methodist background had. I admire the religions that have and teach such historical, meaningful traditions from their history.

 

I really do learn a lot from this board. Thanks to all.

 

[Glenn]

Thanks OGE for joining in. I just wanted to say that I am one Catholic that is grateful for Martin Luther. As you said, the Church was practicing abuses and was NOT following the faith as it was taught by the Apostles and early Church fathers. I only wish he could have brought about the changes you mentioned without splitting off.

 

I also believe that if he didn't go as far as he did, by removing books from the Bible (and changing verses!), then we could have seen a reconcilliation shortly after the split. But he became so anti-Catholic that it was impossible.

 

Sctmom, thanks for the story. I have heard that before (anti-Catholic teaching in some protestant churches). But it does surprise me that it still occurs today. As a Catholic, we are taught that all Christians can get to Heaven. I only wish that all Christians would work together to get America back to its Christian roots.

[Dedicated Dad]

I think Anglicans and Episcopalians are the same thing. Well yes and no, they all did stem from the Church of England but split off to follow the traditional doctrines and use the 1928 Book of Common Prayer, I dont think they would consider them selves to be the same. The Anglican Mission in America, The Anglican Catholic Church, The Anglican Province of Christ the King and Im sure there are more, all have their own Archbishops and seminaries. The Church of England of course got started when Henry VIII (Catholic) couldnt get a divorce This is a common misnomer, the 95 theses were nailed to the door of the Castle Church in 1517 and this marked the beginning of the reformation. Anne Boleyn wasnt even in the picture until around 1532, how on earth can you say the Church of England started for the convenience of a divorce? Urban Legend goes global.