Judge rules for boy in Boy Scouts case

[Dedicated Dad]

Judge rules for boy in Boy Scouts case

 

 

 

12/13/01

 

 

 

BETSY HAMMOND

 

 

 

Portland schools illegally discriminated against atheist students by allowing the Boy Scouts to recruit during school hours, and state officials are wrong to allow the practice to continue, a judge decided Wednesday.

 

 

 

That was the upshot of a ruling by Judge Ellen Rosenblum in Multnomah County Circuit Court. Schools across Oregon that allow Boy Scouts to recruit on campus have been closely watching the case, which has been in and out of court for more than four years.

 

 

 

The judge ruled that Oregon school Superintendent Stan Bunn must rewrite his decision allowing Oregon public schools to let the Scouts make a pitch to captive groups of schoolchildren.

 

 

 

It was a victory for Northeast Portland mother Nancy Powell, who has waged a 41/2-year battle to stop in-school recruiting by the Boy Scouts because the organization allows only boys who swear a belief in God to join. Her son, Remington, was repeatedly recruited by the Scouts at school, beginning when he was a 6-year-old first-grader and continuing after she complained.

 

 

 

After hearing evidence that Bunn did not hear, including watching videotapes of a Boy Scout recruiter making his pitch in several elementary cafeterias this fall, Rosenblum ruled for the Powells.

 

 

 

"It was an abuse of discretion for (Bunn) to find insubstantial evidence of discrimination based on religion," the judge said. "The evidence of discrimination is sufficient, and it was sufficient before today."

 

 

 

Oregon has stronger anti-discrimination laws than many states. One law, dating from the 1970s, says in part that, "No person in Oregon shall be subjected to discrimination in any public elementary, secondary or community college program or service. "Discrimination is defined as "any act that unreasonably differentiates treatment . . . based on age, disability, national origin, race, marital status, religion or sex."

 

 

 

Both sides in the Powells' case have agreed that "because he is an atheist, Remington may not join the Boy Scouts."

 

 

 

Rosenblum's decision, which she issued orally after a daylong hearing, does not settle the question of what will happen with Boy Scout recruiting in Oregon schools.

 

 

 

The controversy is now before Bunn, who has twice ruled that Boy Scout recruiting during school is OK because it is the Boy Scouts, not the schools, that turn away boys who don't believe in God.

 

 

 

The judge said Bunn should try to work out an agreement between the Powells and the American Civil Liberties Union lawyers who represent them and the Portland School Board, which favors allowing in-school recruitment to continue. If that doesn't work, Bunn will have to hold a hearing and issue a new decision, the judge said.

 

 

 

Rosenblum made it clear that Bunn's July 2001 decision upholding Portland schools' current practice, saying "no substantial evidence exists to support the charges of discrimination," will need to change.

 

 

 

Bunn was traveling Wednesday and unavailable for comment, said Barbara Wolfe, a Department of Education spokeswoman.

 

 

 

Deputy Attorney General Peter Shepherd said state officials are weighing whether to appeal Rosenblum's decision or to accept the case for a rehearing before Bunn.

 

 

 

Remington Powell, an atheist who is now an 11-year-old sixth-grader, testified in court Wednesday for the first time in the case's history.

 

 

 

He vividly recalled some details from the first time a Scout recruiter came to Harvey Scott Elementary and told him and other first-graders how much fun Cub Scouts have. His school counselor seconded that. So he raced out of school door that day to tell his waiting mother, an activist atheist, that he wanted to join.

 

 

 

"It sounded fun and I wanted to try it," he said. "When my mom told me the Boy Scouts do not take our kind, I started crying and sobbing . . . I was really sad."

 

 

 

Stephen Bushong, the attorney for Bunn, prompted Remington Powell to admit that he never tried to join the Scouts after his mother told him he would not be accepted. Thus it was Nancy Powell, not the school or the Scouts, that made Remington feel left out, Bushong said.

 

 

 

When his children, now teen-agers, were younger, Bushong said: "I told my kids a thousand times, 'no,' and they broke into tears."

 

 

 

Parents have to be prepared to set limits for their children and deal with the grief that results, he said.

 

 

 

Boy Scout leaders say it is essential for them to be able to recruit new members at school because it is the most complete, most effective and least expensive way to get the word out. The organization teaches leadership, outdoors skills, teamwork and wholesome values to young boys, along with reinforcing a belief in and respect for God, they say.

 

 

 

Portland public school officials have cited the same advantages when explaining why they support giving the Scouts and other community groups access to students during the school day.

 

 

 

You can reach Betsy Hammond at 503-294-7623 or by e-mail at betsyhammond@news.oregonian.com.

 

 

 

Link to original story

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Dedicated Dad]

Sorry, this article seems to have formatted wrong; Ill contact the moderator.

[Dedicated Dad]

discrimination based on age, disability, national origin, race, marital status, religion or sexI didnt realize that atheism is considered a religion, I thought it is the disbelief in God. If religion is a system of beliefs how can disbelief receive the same status of consideration, where is the religion to discriminate against? The controversy is now before Bunn, because it is the Boy Scouts, not the schools, that turn away boys who don't believe in God. Makes sense to me.Side note; a big thank you to the moderator for the quick response to my formatting problem.

 

 

 

[slontwovvy]

"Our kind." Again, one has to love our modern diversity-crazed society. I agree with Dedicated Dad, atheism is not a religion. I don't see how it is justice to give school access to Tibetian monks and Planned Parenthood are allowed in schools but when it comes to Christianity, no way!!! I'm all for equal rights, but when the minority has more rights than the majority, something is wrong.

[evmori]

Atheism is not a religion. Here's the definition:

 

The disbelief or denial of the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.

 

I thought this problem was resolved! If a boy refuses to say the Oath because he is an athiest, then he can't join! End of story!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

 

[jmcquillan]

Ed,

 

Try telling that to an atheist.

 

"Atheism is not a relgion!"

 

"Is too!"

 

"is not!"

 

"Is too!!"

 

"Is not!! Prove it!"

 

"It says so, right here in my Atheist's Bib...le.......oh, wait..."

 

[Chippewa29]

If I remember my Scouting history well enough, it seems like the BSA has been very progressive and inclusive over the years. Didn't the BSA start a project around WWI to try and recruit inner-city and African-American Scouts? Also, didn't the BSA make major efforts to recruit and include Hispanic Scouts sixty or seventy years ago? I never had a clue there were so many different religions and denominations until I joined the Boy Scouts and saw all the different religious awards available.

 

I've seen my share of bigots in the BSA, making comments like "check for your wallet" whenever an African-American or Hispanic Scout walked by or complaining about how those "Ay-rabs" are trying to take over the world by buying all the gas stations. I've even heard some comments by adults in BSA uniforms about how you can't trust those Catholics or Mormons and their secretive ways. Unfortunately, there have been enough of those people to make the BSA (with its basically conservative views) seem like an exclusionary organization, even when it has been one of the most progressive and inclusionary service groups over the past century.

[Rooster7]

"Unfortunately, there have been enough of those people to make the BSA (with its basically conservative views) seem like an exclusionary organization, even when it has been one of the most progressive and exclusionary service groups over the past century."

 

Just to offer another view...In ten plus years as a BSA leader, I have never seen this behavior in my pack or troop. Not to say it doesn't happen elsewhere, but I'm betting it's a pretty rare occurrence in BSA from coast to coast. But then again, I only live where I live.

 

[sctmom]

So if I belong to a religion that recognizes the Sabbath as beginning on Friday at sundown, my child can't go to the high school football games. Yet, the coach is trying to get him to go out for football, the school is having pep rallies, etc. Isn't that discrimination?

 

This lady needs to take responsibility for her beliefs and her child, and quit blaming the rest of the world.

 

There is a clear difference between a group that is organized solely on the purpose of fighting people not like them and an organization such as BSA. BSA's sole purpose is not to convert all non-believers or to alienate them. Regardless of your religion, it has been shown that BP was right when saying you need a spiritual life. He didn't say which one, but that you need one.

 

[evmori]

Rooster7,

You are getting more profound by the day! "But then again, I only live where I live." WOW!

 

Athesism is a belief just like people who belong to the Flat Earth Society believe the Earth is flat. A belief doesn't constitute a religion.

 

 

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Chippewa29]

Rooster7- I'm glad you haven't had to listen to some of the junk I've heard over the years. Fortunately, most of the people I've seen do it were people I didn't respect and ended up not staying in the Scouts for a long time or they were older Scouters who grew up in a time and place where it was acceptable to openly talk down someone of another ethnicity (basically, think of Archie Bunker in a Scout uniform). In the metro area where I live, you don't hear of a lot of racial problems and most everyone works with people of different ethnicities. However, once the work day is done, they all go home to neighborhoods that have been segregated by choice. It is a weird thing. People have tended to settle in cities and neighborhoods where they are close to "their own kind", but many (I hope it is most) of them wouldn't be bothered if someone that wasn't the same ethnicity moved into the neighborhood as long as they were good people.

 

Rooster, please be careful when paraphrasing. In your last post, you misquoted my previous post and those two letters different make a huge difference in my statement.

[sctmom]

Last night this thread brought up a memory for me. When I was about 8 years old, I heard there was a Girl Scout Brownie troop starting in our small town. Oh how I wanted to join. I had my sister's old Brownie book and loved to sit and look at it (not understanding most of it, but still liked it). I vividly remember my parents standing in the kitchen discussing if I could join. My father said "no". Why? Because of his racial bias (I went to a private school that he helped form, by the way.)

 

I didn't agree with him then, don't agree with him now. But it was his choice, maybe not on good reasons. It never struck me to cry and whine about it or blame the Girl Scouts. It just simply could not be because Father said NO. It went against what he believed was right for his family.

 

I think we all encounter situations where we have to make the decision to not participate based on our belief system. This is often hard on adults and children, but it is also how we teach our children to stand up for what they believe in. Even as common as "no you can't watch that TV show because it goes against our values" to more extreme situations. Also, if our belief systems are strong, one 10 minute presentation about Scouting or whatever should not sway our children (okay, that's debateable, but you know what I mean). This woman should see this as a chance to reinforce her atheist beliefs to her child and as a learning/growing experience for both of them.

 

I just can't figure out why having the Scouts do a presentation is "unreasonably differentiates treatment". They aren't having Scout meetings during school. There is no grade based on being in Scouts. There is no pressure.

 

I just hate people who have to find BLAME. Let's blame it on BSA or the school or someone else so we don't have to say "this is what I believe and it's my responsibility."

 

[OldGreyEagle]

What if the school set aside time for some one to recruit students to Atheism? Would the scouts be allowed to recruit then? Perhaps Ms Powell would like to present why she thinks Atheism is the way to live, this followed by the scouts recruitment presentation, wouldnt that the be ultimate solution? Not exclusion, but inclusion?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

>What if the school set aside time for some one to recruit >students to Atheism? Would the scouts be allowed to recruit >then?

 

No. Read the ruling. Allowing a religiously discriminatory organization (such as the Boy Scouts) to recruit during school hours is illegal. This can't be "balanced out" in some way.

 

And yes, atheism is not a religion, but it's still "religious discrimination". Specifically, it's a credal requirement, much like excluding trinitarians (even though "trinitarianism" isn't a religion, it's a creed of some religions).

 

There was a similar decision in Michigan at about the same time (Dec. 10), where the school *and* the BSA were found to have violated the civil rights of an atheist student and both are liable for damages.

 

Like I said months ago, the BSA's religious discrimination is going to result in the loss of government support; the US government is *required* to treat all its citizens equally on the basis of religion, and supporting the BSA is incompatible with that. If the BSA wants to continue to exclude atheists, get used to more stories like this.

 

---

Merlyn LeRoy

[sctmom]

I live in an area where many newly formed churches who do not have a building use the public schools for services on Sunday. Isn't this discrimination? Yes, I can attend their services but to be a "member" of their church I must subscribe to their beliefs. If that church does not allow women in the clergy, that's discrimination.

 

How can that be allowed? Yet BSA is not able to even meet on some school property.