This stellar Boy Scout has legions of merits

[slontwovvy]

Exactly, Eman. What has a Scout learned if he has received Eagle at age 12? Very little, in my opinion. Isn't learning and growth what we want from our Scouts, though? A rank badge means very little if it is not backed up by training. It is sad that many troops seem to have forgotten this, and instead push for speed and ignoring the long-term interests of the boy and the benefits that slowing down might bring.

[Mike Long]

My point is simple. The boy did what was asked of him. The ADULTS are the ones who need more training.

 

Also please re-read the original post. He didn't earn all the merit badges at 12 he earned them at 16. I knew a guy when I was a scout in the 80's who did the same. Some folks are more dedicated to achieving a goal than others. Olympic Atheletes anyone?

 

Everyone got stuck on the 12 year old Eagle. I can't say I like it or agree with it. Personally I have never seen a 12 year old Eagle but I sat on the Review Board of a thirteen year old Eagle and never knew it.

 

I have come to believe that all a scout has to do to get Eagle is to do what the adults ask of him. Sad but true.

[slontwovvy]

Yes, the leaders do need more training. It is disappointing to me that I am hearing more and more of the 12-year-old Eagle stories every year. People are so materialistic that they get the patch without realizing what it should mean or what truly working for it is.

[Chippewa29]

Although I believe the Eagle award is a great way to develop character, its requirements themselves don't necessarily develop the character. It is the experiences the Scout goes through while working on those requirements where the character is developed. If a Scout wants, it isn't really that hard to get their Eagle award. Some merit badges are very easy to get (Pets, Leatherwork, etc.) and we've all seen projects that we've questioned the quality of. Therefore, someone saying they are an Eagle Scout unfortunately needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The experiences along the way make the Scout, not fulfilling a set of requirements.

 

When I first joined the Scouts, I wanted to make Eagle in two years. I got to Life in 16 months with 16 or 17 merit badges. I had also just finished a six month term as SPL of my troop (at 12 1/2, I was fifth or sixth oldest in a troop of 16-18 Scouts at the time). Fortunately, a month after getting my Life, I got a life. I was inducted into the OA and by coincidence (luck) was elected a chapter officer a month after that. I became very active in our lodge, eventually getting my Vigil Honor at 16 and receiving some much needed (and now much appreciated) mentoring from some older Arrowmen. I ended up getting my Eagle about four months before I turned 18. My fondest memories and biggest growth experiences as a Scout didn't come from my troop or earning the ranks, but rather from the experiences I got in the OA.

 

Going back, if I had to choose the best Scouts my troop ever produced, I would have to include two non-Eagles in the top five. One worked at summer camp and became a certified climbing instructor for our council (at age 20), but never went beyond Star because he just didn't like the academic aspect of Scouting. Another one was just two merit badges short (he had finished his project) when he turned 18. He has also become a quality citizen (respected school teacher and coach). There are a couple of Eagles in my troop that I don't think really deserved the award, but as they completed the requirements, they got the award. Too much emphasis has been put on earning the Eagle as compared to developing quality people. This is similar to how these days people place too much emphasis on GPA in school (kids go for a good grade sometimes in lieu of learning the material). It has been shown time and again that the most successful people aren't necessarily the ones with the best academic credentials. What is the saying "A students go work for the B students in companies owned by the C students?"

[slontwovvy]

Chippewa29, I agree with you. Some of the finest Scouts I've known are the founders of the "Life for Life" Club. Rank is not everything or the only thing (as one famous and well-known Wisconsin person once said). The ones who get the most out of Scouting are often the ones who do not achieve its highest rank.

[dan]

Good Job Eagle Jedadiah Curry.

It is good to hear of a scout that must have enjoyed scouting, I hope you did not burn yourself out as a scout and can contuine in Scouting in some form.

 

Remember to follow the Scout Law throughout your life, and I beleive you will not fail!

 

And lets not forget the Cub Scout Oath, I still use it on my Son.

DO YOUR BEST!

[le Voyageur]

A 12 year old Eagle.....

 

Nothing could prove my point better for time in rank, and working and earning one rank at a time...kinda wonder how long it took him to do his Eagle Scout Service project, must of started it as soon as he got his Arrow of Light....hmmmmmm, wonder if it could of been that two bit log bridge tossed across the creek at Rock Castle Gorge, the one posted with the fancy brass "this is my Eagle Scout Service project" plack????? Okay, so I'm being snide....however, on a camp staff a 12 year old Eagle Scout is as useful as a left handed smoke shifter, and not even old enough to be a CIT...

 

 

[slontwovvy]

Amen, Ie Voyageur. I have seen many too many 12-year-old Eagles who lack the skills to survive in Scouts, let alone real life. You'd be amazed at how many Eagles don't know how to tie a square knot.

[OldGreyEagle]

just bringing this up relating to the Eagle Palm thread

[mama_bear]

Wow, as we grow older do we grow wiser or just more cynical. We are so ready to throw doubt upon this scout's achievements. There are so many other important underlying topics we could be discussing. Whether or not this scout thoroughly accomplished all the requirements for each badge is really a moot point since he has been awarded then and they can not be taken back. So if he was not qualified to receive Eagle and 130 MB, doesn't blame lie with the adults involved and the entire scouting community. These young boys take an oath. And it is our job to explain to them the meaning and importance of that oath in our words and actions. And by us casting doubt and accusations at this scout, we also place ourselves in an unpleasant light. We should applaud the young man for his perseverance and desire to overcome his numerous ailments. Does everyone really understand what a feat this might have been. Due to his medical condition, scouting might be his only opportunity to blend in and join his peers. If that is the case then wouldn't that type of environment encourage him to blossom and shine. And any boy who can be trusted to solely check his own insulin levels 4x a day, can be trusted to lead my son.

I don't mean to preach or lecture because the concerns raised are somewhat valid but look at all the good that could come from all this. Perhaps some boy, parent or neighbor read this story and was inspired to join. Isn't scouting about making a difference in a boy's life. What a wonderful opportunity for us all.

I know becoming an Eagle is quite a phenomenal and challenging feat, especially at the age of 12 but is it truly impossible? There have been other children who have inspired and awed us with their great feats, the Anne Franks and Tiger Woods of the world.

(Sorry, off my soapbox.)

 

[evmori]

mamma_bear,

It is possible for a 12 year old to earn Eagle. The question here seems to be did he earn it or was it given to him.

 

Who was his MB counselor for his badges? Was it mom or dad? What did he learn? Did he retain any of what he learned?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[littlebillie]

Taking this at face value, and making the reasonable assumptions - a bright kid, with enthusiasm, parents of a challenged child trying hard to 'enable' him (i.e., maybe providing a bit more direction than many want to see), maybe a few easy counselors - heck, you're bound to cover the full spectrum working on so many - even considering all this, it'd still take meeting the kid and looking into his eyes when he talked about it to convince some folks. Rightly so.

 

But if it IS all true, and above board, the kid's now at the point where you have to think about what he does next.

 

We've all known folks who immerse themselves to the exclusion of everything else in some new interest - and when that interest finally died, BOOM - there they were, listless, undirected, yearning, needing something to do. This kind of possibly compulsive behavior can have a really darkside, and there's nothing in the story to make me want to rule out that possibility.

 

What's next for this boy? Maybe a marvelous future - but maybe a lot of therapy. Or both. If finishing the list leaves some huge void, his parents need to be prepared to deal with it.

 

Still, let's hope for everyone's sake that it's all done fairly, that the kid's happy, and that no matter what other developing physical challenges he might endure (life is not knecessarily kind to young diabetics) that he can look back on THIS time, and these accomplishments and feel that he has indeed done something...

 

[mk9750]

I don't want to be so presumtuous as to say NO 12 year old could be a legitimate Eagle Scout, or that a Scout couldn't earn over 100 MBs. I've not met every boy in the program. But I can tell you that of the 100 - 125 boys with which I have been associated, including some highly motivated and very intellegent boys, not one of them could have done either of these things. I'll admit, it is possible to actually complete the requirements to be Eagle Scout at 12, but could they have gotten everything out of the program that the program was designed to offer? I just don't think so. As I have mentioned in other threads, as a MB Counselor for Personal Management, I guess I have to admit that any boy could complete these requirements. But look at some of them: Do a budget. Make a resume. Make a plan for living on your own. Can a 12 year old get the same value out of doing these that a 15, 16, 17 year old can? Sorry, but I don't believe so.

 

I love the comment made here about earning Eagle Scout -vs- Being an Eagle Scout. All of the experiences that go into being an Eagle Scout accumulate over the Scouting career of a boy. In a perfect wold (OK, im my view of a perfect world), a boy progresses naturally through the ranks to Eagle about his 16th birthday, give or take a year for the realities of that boy (other activities, scholastics, motivation and maturity, to name a few). Then, he has about two more years to cement his standing as an Eagle Scout by giving back to his Troop, and taking his knowledge and experience out into the community. For some, this is working at summer camp or Council JLT, for others it is being the example of what an Eagle Scout is at School and around town (even if some don't know that he is an Eagle). When he reaches 18, he then has a solid backround from which he can do so many things: Decide on a career path, eventually start a family, begin influencing the youth he will associate with through his children.

 

It is only fair to allow for those who do it faster. Dsteele is a great example. I think he said he was 13 when he earned his Eagle, and everything I've seen him say supports the fact that it wan't given to him. I'm am sure there are others. But I'll go out on a limb and say that for every one legitimate 12 - 13 year old Eagle Scout, there are 20 other 12 -13 Eagles who didn't deserve it, and don't live it now. And if my ratio is anywhere near correct, isn't that a shame?

 

My best story to support my position comes from a fellow Den Leader when I was active in Cub Scouts. He showed up at the first pack meeting with four knots on his new uniform, including one for Eagle Scout. He said he included the others because he would earn them eventually, and it was easier for his wife to sew them all on at once (he never did go through any kind of training, and I never saw him at a round table, so I am very suspicious about whether he ever did earn Den Leader). He bragged about being the youngest Eagle Scout in his Council. I never asked him how old he was. But I did ask him what he did for his Eagle project. He couldn't remember! I've helped 13 Scouts on their Eagle projects, and I can assure you not one of them will EVER forget what he did. But this guy didn't have a clue what he did. He did say that he did it 100% by himself. He was bragging that no one had to assist him. Obviously, he never caught on to the fact that it is a project designed to display leadership.

 

I admit to having a bit of a sour taste in my mouth about young Eagles because of this guy. But when I put togehter his experience and compare it to the guys in our troop, none of whom deserve to have been Eagle much before 16, I think it may be obvious why I disagree whith allowing it to happen.

 

The other day, our SM and I were talking about advancement policies. I made the comment, and he agreed, that, if asked to defend how we regulate advancement, we could never do so. I don't think we break any rules, but certainly we bend them. For instance, as a Personal Mgt. Counselor, I just won't agree to work on the badge with someone who does not have a part time job. I'm pretty certain I am allowed to say yes or no to a Scout who approaches me about working on a badge. I am just as certain I can't add a requirement, which needing a job sounds like. So obvbiously, there is a dichotomy in my position. But, neither of us would every consider changing our philosophy. We have seen the value that asking boys to meet high standards has. Not once has any of the Scouts (Eagle or otherwise) complained. Rather, we have current boys, we have former Scouts, and we have multitudes of parents congratulate us on how we do things. And we have had Scouts who have come back from doing MB work with Counselors outside of our Troop, with signed blue cards, asking one of our adults to sign up to do "X" MB and do it over again because the Counselor didn't cover everything. We have guys who brag that they don't count basketry and leatherwork among their list of MBs, having opted for tougher ones.

 

Another long post. I'm sorry. But I am passionalte about this.

 

Mark

[Twocubdad]

I realize this thread is over a year old (I must have missed it the first time around), but I think we're missing the forest for the trees.

 

Re-read what this kid has accomplished and what he has overcome. Can anyone say this is not a Scout you would be proud to have standing with your Troop? Can you really question his maturity or character?

 

 

[evmori]

Twocubdad,

I agree this Scout has overcome a lot. But the question still remains, what did he learn? Baed on his comment about woodcarving (probably a type in the article woodworking) he didn't learn much. If this is the case, what's the point? Merit badges are to be earned not collected like stamps or coins.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10