Whither Political Correctness//Where does it stop/start

[Mike Long]

Political Correctness is a pervasive cancer that infects all that it touches. It has even corrupted the word sensitivity to now mean that you can not be free to be yourself for fear of causing offense.

 

PC by ANY definition is unnecessary and only serves to promote someones political agenda. Courtesy does the job of creating a polite and inclusive society much better than the PC mantra.

 

When I or anyone else is not allowed to express who I am and what I believe in for fear of being "un-PC" then freedom and our way of life dies a little death.

 

OGE your original examples are rude and insulting and simple courtesy should keep those from occuring.

 

In my view PC is common courtesy that has been twisted and preverted into an ideology used to attack and subdue traditional thoughts and customs.

 

No one needs PC, what we need is courtesy.

[Rooster7]

It warms my heart to say, judging from the above posts, I am in complete agreement with my BSA brethren. Still, I'd like to add a few comments:

 

1) The "PC crowd" infuriates me. Why? Primarily, because their arguments position themselves as self-appointed and self-righteous caretakers of the "abused", when in fact, they are guilty of their own rhetoric. They portray everyone who disagrees with them as bigots or idiots. They assume without debate that they have interpreted all of the facts properly. Those who chose to see it differently become the accused. They claim to be protecting the defenseless from mistreatment, but in performing this "noble" task, they will slander anyone and everyone. We should all speak up when the PC crowd attempts to invoke their will. If not, eventually, they will create the "utopia" that sctmom described.

 

2) As to Christian prayers being forced on un-willing participants (per sctmom's second post), I have never witnessed this. In fact, it is quite contrary to what I have been exposed to. In the D.C. area, the PC crowd usually fights to ban all public Christian prayers (regardless of circumstance or place) because someone might take offense. Apparently, they equate hearing with participating. I do notnor should anyone else. If so, we might as well ban all speech.

 

3) Lastly, I agree with Brad Andrews. We need to be careful not to confuse perception with reality. We may have different opinions about truth, but there is only one truth (by definition it must be so). Consequently, these discussions can often turn ugly. If I claim one truth and you another, then one of us is either a liar or deceived. Since no one likes to be called those things, it often prompts a un-Scout-like reaction. Nevertheless, I feel we can have these discussions as long as we are aware of the implications, use logic to defend one's position, and restrain ourselves from emotional reactions.

 

As an aside, on occasion, I am guilty of not restraining my emotions. Surprisingly, most posters at this site have not overreacted when I have done this. This has inspired me to some degree. When I have managed to restrain my tongue on this board, it has been rewarded. This is to say, very often the person or persons disagreeing with me, will concede a point or will provide a better and more agreeable explanation of their position. Patience is a virtue (just wish I had more of it). To those of you who have practiced patience (some call it grace), I say thank you and have a Happy New Year.

 

[evmori]

Rooster,

I enjoy your banter. Probably because you and I think alike. There are times to restrain & times to let loose. I don't feel any of your non-restrained posts have been inappropriate.

 

Have a Blessed New Year.

 

I look forward to more banter from you

 

Ed Mori

The "Not PC" Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Dedicated Dad]

I had no intention of bringing homosexuality into the discussion. Um, that would be me, I brought it in as a parallelism of how political correctness allows the truth to be distorted to accommodate depravity. Truth means fact not opinion and blurring the two with specious analogy simply furthers this common misinterpretation. Those who choose not accept the truth as absolute and unwavering are those who need to make the truth just an opinion. Somewhere along the line, the term became identified with the absurd and inane desire to eliminate all "differences" This is a correct assumption and like I said on the other thread, PC-ness in an attempt to right the wrongs of our society. It throws out the good with the bad leaving a sterile environment for baseness to flourish in equality with what is good, right and true. In my view PC is common courtesy that has been twisted and perverted into an ideology used to attack and subdue traditional thoughts and customs. Big bump to that Mike! the PC crowd usually fights to ban all public Christian prayers (regardless of circumstance or place)Apparently, they equate hearing with participating. Well put Rooster, it would seem that the establishment clause should be independent of the free exercise clause when it comes to our freedom of speech. If we were truly free to exercise our religion we shouldnt have any boundaries of access to public property, show me the tile in the school my taxes paid for so I can stand on it and recite the Lords Prayer.

 

 

 

 

[Dedicated Dad]

BTW everyone,

Happy New Year

 

 

[sctmom]

Dedicated Dad, you and your children can go say the Lord's prayer anywhere you want on school property but the school cannot lead you in saying it.

 

Will you allow Muslims to say their prayers out loud? Or Jews? Or Native Americans? (all very true Religions)

 

 

You write:

Truth means fact not opinion and blurring the two with specious analogy simply furthers this common misinterpretation. Those who choose not accept the truth as absolute and unwavering are those who need to make the truth just an opinion.

 

How many TRUTHS do you think there are? Where would we be if people didn't question the truth? The world would be flat, the sun would revolve around the earth, there would be no cures for diseases. Some "truths" must be questioned, not to prove them wrong but to understand why it is the TRUTH.

Jews do not accept that Jesus is THE savior. Does that mean it is just their "opinion"? Only Christians are right and everyone else is wrong?

 

Not arguing, just bringing up some thoughts.

 

Also, as a female some of the "PC" is directed at me. I will tell you that much of it is absurd. As a teenager I worked in a small town hardware store. Many of the men were very uncomfortable about this. Some refused to have me wait on them -- they were the rude ones, like I didn't know where the screwdrivers where kept. Some of the men did things out of courtesy and respect -- such as refusing to let me put my hand in the bin of nails for them or picking up their own 50 lb. bag of fertilizer. That was politeness. At the time I was about 5'1" and weighed about 110 pounds, I COULDN'T pick up a 50 lb bag! It was very obvious the men who were doing for me because they respected me and those who would say things like "don't worry your pretty little head over it." My "little head" could out think them any day of the week! I knew more about hardware at 17 then a lot of men ever know.

 

 

Don't pretend I'm one of the guys, I'm obviously not. But at the same time don't assume I can't do things simply because I'm female. Such as my mother-in-law who refuses to watch her grandson shoot the BB gun because "oh, you know how us grandma's are, something might happen, that's a man thing." Oh, PLEEZE! The boy needs to learn how to handle a gun. When she said this I realized why many men don't want women around Boy Scouts --- yikes that attitude doesn't belong around girls either!

 

 

 

[Dedicated Dad]

but the school cannot lead you in saying it. I fail to see how a school doing such establishes a national religion, the concept will forever be foreign to me. I believe an elected school board stands in judgement from its local constituents each and every time there is an election, if the community at large wants to have prayer in school it should be guaranteed that right by the free exercise clause, IMHO. All this could revisited if Justices Rehnquist, O'Connor, Ginsburg, and Stevens leave.

How many TRUTHS do you think there are? I didnt realize that there was a finite number. How many are there? If youre going to usurp Wittgenstein you may want to be more detailed. Where would we be if people didn't question the truth? The world would be flat, the sun would revolve around the earth, there would be no cures for diseases. Some "truths" must be questioned, not to prove them wrong but to understand why it is the TRUTH. Jews do not accept that Jesus is THE savior. Does that mean it is just their "opinion"? Only Christians are right and everyone else is wrong? Ahh, so many straw men and so little time. I never said truth cant be questioned and I dont understand how the questioning of truth makes your point, if truth can be changed it was never truth to begin with, if truth is fact then it is unwavering and stands the test of time. As far as misconstruing faith with truth, I would point out that faith is the firm belief (opinion) in something for which there is no proof and distorting that definition with specious analogy serves no purpose. Existential philosophy of what truth is will never change fact into opinion.

 

[Rooster7]

sctmom,

 

You said, "Jews do not accept that Jesus is THE savior. Does that mean it is just their "opinion"? Only Christians are right and everyone else is wrong?"

 

One can argue about what is right and wrong, or rather, "what is truth?" But the bottom line is: There is only one truth. So, yes, both of these groups cannot be right. Their positions are mutually exclusive. Logic dictates that one is right and the other is not. Jesus is either THE Savior or he is not. This is not a pretence to proselytize. Your statement/question infers that there can multiple truths. That is nonsense. BSA accepts all major faiths of the world (as they should). As individuals we should seek truth, but it is not BSA's mandate to determine it for us (outside of the fact that there is "a" God). A Christian who believes he and Jews have no disagreement, either does not understand his own faith or does not trust it to be truth (which, by definition, would make him a non-believer and not a Christian). Does this mean we should treat each other with disrespect? Of course not! However, respect does not mean I must accept someone else's faith as truth.

 

[evmori]

Rooster 7,

Beliefs are not always truths. Believing in something doesn't make it a truth. If it did, the Tooth Fairy would have to file a tax return!

 

Scouting accepts many beliefs. As a Christian, I believe the Jesus is the Son of God & died for our sins. I don't believe, as the Jews do, he was just another prophet. Is either of these a truth? To me, my belief is. To the Jews, theirs is. So, does that mean I am right & Jews are wrong or visa versa? Based on each belief, yes. We won't know the answer to this question until we die. So the truth is virtually unknown until then. I believe my belief is the truth.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Rooster7]

Ed,

 

I'm not suggesting that given any two belief systems or faiths that one must be right and the other wrong. However, in this particular case, sctmom is juxtaposing Christianity with Judaism. For one to be right, the other MUST be wrong. Logically, this is a simple deduction that cannot be disputed. Is Jesus THE Savior? Is He the Son of God? Jews say no. Christians say yes. How can one be right without the other being wrong? It's not possible.

 

Who is right? That's a separate debate. I'm not looking to start that debate (although, as a Christian, it should be obvious as to where I stand).

 

[berkshirescouter]

Hi

As a Jew and a Scouter the more important point is that we can agree, as Scouters, to respect each others 'truths' or faiths. Thus show that we are the more tolerant then those who profess Political Correctness.

 

Paul

 

[Dedicated Dad]

Oh, PLEEZE! The boy needs to learn how to handle a gun.MOM, youre alright with me.

[slontwovvy]

I second Dedicated Dad's praise of sctmom. From what I have observed during my years of scouting in the troop and on camp staff, I have not found too many female leaders like sctmom. This is not being stereotypical, but it seems most female leaders tend to lose sight of the fact that Scouting is supposed to be fun and enjoyable for the boys that participate in it, as well as practical and applicable to future and present life.

As a staff member, I have seen parents (more often than not, scout mothers) protest to our lifesaving instructor that he was making lifesaving merit badge "too hard." Never mind the fact he was just doing the requirements and the boys she had in the session were 12 years old and not ready for the rigorous lifesaving session.

It gladdens my heart to see scout leaders who can see beyond getting a merit badge and truly look out for the long-term good of the youth under her guidance.

[evmori]

Rooster 7,

I love a good debate! And yes boys need to learn to shoot straight! And yes Scouting accepts many beliefs! And yes as a Christian my beliefs are probably very similar to yours. But ain't it fun to stir the pot once in awhile? I have done this with the Scouts in my Troop from time to time. It gets them thinking!

 

Keep it up, Rooster! By the way, I think PC should stand for "Please Cease"

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[Rooster7]

Its Trail Day,

 

AMEN. I'm pleased that you understand my point. We can disagree about what we believe and yet still respect one another.

 

Dedicated Dad, slontwovvy, and sctmom,

 

While many will disagree, the fact is, Baden-Powell wanted British youth to be prepared in every way, including for war. If one researches his statements, while he emphasizes citizenship, it was his frustration with inexperienced and unskilled troops that provided the catalyst for Boy Scouts. Of course, there are other reasons to learn to handle a gun, but there is nothing wrong with learning this skill so one may defend his nation.