What is Morally Straight?

[OldGreyEagle]

I guess I didnt look at it that way Dan, good point.

 

By the way, you bring up a point I have been wondering about. Does the BSA ban on homosexuals extend to scouts or to just leaders? I have never seen a straight answer on that subject

[vizoere]

OGE:

Does the BSA ban on homosexuals extend to scouts or to just leaders?

 

Alas, I don't have a straight answer for you, but just another opinion.

I would hate to hear that it does extend to scouts.

 

As some previously pointed out, being morally straight doesn't necessarily mean that one is free from all immoral actions/thoughts, but that the individual recognizes what they are doing/have done is wrong & struggles to make right.

 

Even with this realization, can a leader with good conscience remove a boy from scouting because he impulsively lies? He thinks of these lies as 'little white lies', to embelish the truth, exagerate a story, or just make himself look better in front of his peers. He believes there is nothing wrong with it. The boy would be better served by working with him & attempting to help him understand the right & wrong of lieing.

 

The same would apply to a boy who believes he his a homosexual. The ages of boys involved in scouting as we all know are an age of trying to identify one's self. Most boys at some time during this period have thoughts that could construed in a growing mind as homosexual. They need help sorting out what they think. Ideally, this role is fulfilled by the father. Unfortunately, these days with the overwhelming growth of single parent families, that isn't always possible.

 

As mentioned in a few other threads, this is a topic that you should have the boy first ask his parents about, but we as male scout leaders are in a position that could help these boys when noone else can.

 

I know some will argue that we shouldn't broach this topic for political reasons. I agree to a point. We should at least speak with the parent(s) of the boy (unless that would violate the boy's confidence in you) and ask them to talk to him. If no father is in the boy's life, ask if we can help guide him in a direction in line with the morals of scouting.

 

If all of the above has been tried, and the boy still believes himself to be gay, then what should we do?

Kick him out?

Suggest that he join another program?

Allow him to remain a member & ignore the fact that he is/believes himself to be, a homosexual?

 

I don't really know. Other opinions?

[FScouter]

I would seriously question whether a 17 year old boy has the maturity to decide that he is homosexual. For that reason I would not initiate any process that would result in removing him from the troop for that reason.

[berkshirescouter]

Unless a 17 year old or any scout of any age is running around and making a loud public statement of his sexual orentation no action would be taken in our council.

 

Paul

[Dedicated Dad]

Now imagine this a 17 year old scout is 2 months away from receiving his eagle and in a moment of distress he confines in you that he is gay If he would in a moment of distress confide in you that he takes drugs, has an incestual relationship or worships satan and is remorseless of such things, is he equally as worthy of remaining a member in good standing?

 

Does the BSA ban on homosexuals extend to scouts or to just leaders? I dont know the official position on that but, why would the BSA have more than one standard for Morally Straight?

 

being morally straight doesn't necessarily mean that one is free from all immoral actions/thoughtsI believe it does iff the leader/scout is unrepentant of the behavior.

 

I would seriously question whether a 17-year-old boy has the maturity to decide that he is homosexual. Thats an interesting thought but it kinda blows the theory that they born that way.

 

 

If that 17-yld chooses not to be morally straight and has no intention of changing his behavior, he absolutely does not belong in an organization that stands for quite the opposite.

 

[dan]

My opioin is one of yes the leaders and scouts are on the same rule book for BSA, I do not see how one could say that it is all right for a scout to be a gay but a leader could not.

And what if your son was sharing a two man tent with this scout who thought he may be gay?

But I also do not think that a gay person can become straight.

 

[Dedicated Dad]

 

But I also do not think that a gay person can become straight.You may want to check out www.exodusnorthamerica.org if you want to be sure.

 

[andrews]

The question for the young man would be if he has acted on that "feeling." If not, then he needs some serious counselling. If so, I would ask if he was still openly practicing it. I would expect the same if he said he was sexually active with his girlfriend. If true, he would not be living up to the ideals of the Scout Oath and Motto, a requirement for advancement.

 

Brad

[evmori]

Gays can become straight just as drug addicts can kick their habit. (different methods, though)

 

As far as a 17 year old knowing whether he is gay - I think this is possible. We were all born with a sinful nature. God gave us the freedom to choose to pursue that sinful nature or not. So it is possible people were born this way.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[eisely]

How to deal with a youth member who comes to you and says that he thinks that he is gay?

 

Good question. BSA policy is not very helpful. First of all, it is my understanding that adult leaders are not suppose to discuss sex with youth members. It seems to me that I have seen that in writing somewhere. Anybody who knows where that is written and can inform the rest of us would be most helpful.

 

Second, the policy on "avowed homosexuals" does not distinguish between adult and youth members. While most scouters would have little difficulty following the policy with respect to adults, I think many scouters would be troubled with the idea of simply expelling a kid who said in private conversation that he thought he was gay. As with most scouters, I would refer that boy to his parents. But what if you know that there is only one parent or that the parents would react inappropriately, possibly even violently?

 

As other posters above have commented, adolescence is a time of great uncertainty and even experimentation, and just because a boy might think something, does not make it so. Our purpose is to be there for the boy, not just to throw them out on a flimsy inference that just because a boy says he thinks he's gay he's got to go.

 

Coming back to some of the original thoughts in this thread, morality has less to do with private thoughts than it does with conduct, or behavior towards others. If a boy had come on to other boys, or attempted inappopriate physical contact, that would be grounds for at least a serious discussion, if not suspension. Such conduct would go against sensible youth protection in addition to not being "morally straight." Even under such a scenario, a first time offender should handled differently than a second time offender.

 

In this regard, one has to treat other youth witnesses or complainants with some skepticism. Kids will accuse each other of incredible things for the pettiest of reasons.

 

As an aside, some readers may be aware of a somewhat troublesome deal that a council in South Florida made with the local homosexual community. This was a political, not a legal settlement. In order for the scouts to retain low cost access to public facilities, the council agreed to refer self identified gay youth members to homosexual support groups. This is something I personally would not do.

[Rooster7]

Obviously this thread hit a nerve. I'm just astounded by the number of responses. "To Camo or not to Camo" (44 responses), the closest contender to this thread pales in comparison. "What is Morally Straight?" blew away that discussion, acuminating 86 responses in less than two weeks.

 

Obviously we don't all agree. Yet, I still feel there is a brotherhood in this organization. If I could create the perfect world, we would all agree. Nevertheless, I feel this debate was useful. And for the most part, it was friendly. I like debating online because I can truly say what is on my mind (without watering it down too much). On occasion, I have re-read my remarks and found them to be hostile, which is not what I intended. When this has been the case, I have tried to tone it down and/or apologize in subsequent posts...Yet, it has been great (and fun) being able to say what is on your mind.

 

I'd like to say - If I have given cause to anyone's anger, I do apologize (but stand by my beliefs). As I celebrate the Christmas holidays with my friends and family, I like to wish you all a Merry Christmas. "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests." - Luke 2:14

 

[evmori]

Rooster,

I have always looked forward to you comments, blunt or not. At least you speak from the heart. Thanks for contributing here and on other boards.

 

A blessed Christmas to you and yours.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1