Adults Smoking at Scout Events

[GeBlack]

My sympathies for your loss and the difficulties you are facing.

 

I myself have a 100 y/o grandmother who has alzheimers, never smoked and has required constant care for the last 20 years. Aging, death and disease are not pleasant no matter how they happen.

 

People do not steal their time away from other people, it was never theirs to give, smoking does not guarantee a lingering death from lung cancer or emphysema. You may wake up tomorrow to have a toilet drop on your head. Enjoy the time you are given with the one's you love. Respect their choices even if you do not agree with them.

 

I respect your position but do not agree. Of course I am one of the few who still feels the seat belt law is an infringement upon individual liberties. I have parents and don't need the government or any other organization to continue that role for me.

[OldGreyEagle]

Then again

 

...No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee....

[OldGreyEagle]

Drat, the curse of the double post(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Bob White]

GE there would be no reason for you to know of the G2SS if you are not a regidterd scouter. However, that being said the scoutmaster and every trained leader in you unit is aware of the G2SS and of Youth Protection. There would be no acceptable reson for them to not be aware of the alcohol, drugs and tbacco policies of the BSA. Your Unit leaders are ultimately responsible for the policies of scouting being adhered to in you runit's program activities and camsites. You are right to ask "why didn't someone know" but you need to ask the right people. The one who should have known and acted in accordance to BSA regulations is your Scoutmaster.

 

Bob White

[packsaddle]

nevermind(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Bob White]

I hope we can all agree that scouting is a positive activity for developing positive behavior in scouts. i bring this up because of this quote.

 

"Positive youth development builds resolve and resiliency in young people by surrounding them with positive messages and positive influences, enhancing their personal strengths and enabling them to resist risky behaviors, such as smoking."

 

It comes form a website on the importance of keeping youth from smoking. It stresses that positive role modeling has a huge effect on youth. Oh yes the site www.philipmorrisusa.com the world's largest manufacturer and distributor of tobacco products.

 

So think about that the next time you allow someone to smoke in front of the scouts.

 

Bob White

[Proud Eagle]

No one participating in a Scouting event should be permitted to smoke around Scouts. This is the apparent intent of the G2SS. However, more than that, it is common sense. Scouters should not engage in activity around Scouts that they would not approve of. This is a very simple case of setting a good example. This common sense rule also extends to parents, since any adult participating in a Scouting event is a role model to at least some degree.

 

As to those who are arguing over the interpretation of policy, I am very confused as to why there are multiple interpretations. Perhaps it is legally true that "may not allow" has multiple meanings, but ask any English teacher what that means and I imagine the response will be that it is synonis with prohibited.

 

To GE: The range instructor or whoever confronted you should have been careful to consider the Oath and Law when choosing a method of informing you of policy and asking you to comply. He was wrong in his method if he did not. It is clear you were improperly informed of the policy, so you can not really be held responsible for violating it. Now you know the policy, so I feel certain that if you choose to participate in future Scouting events you will also choose to follow the policy.

[Fat Old Guy]

"I have dedicated a good portion of my life to preserving the freedoms you enjoy and will not bow to the will of individuals who attempt to take those freedoms away."

 

Oddly, you work for the government to maintain a way of life that is moderately free from government intrusion. However, a Boy Scout event is a private affair put on by a private organization and consequently BSA can impose any rule they wish.

 

If BSA wanted to say, "you must sing I'm a little teapot" before entering the event, they can but attendance might be low.

 

Smoking and drinking are two hot buttons in our society. Unfortunately, too many people who smoke or drink are rude idiots and are unable to show the slightest consideration for others. A friend's wife suffers from asthma and asked a man smoking near her to not smoke because it was aggrevating her condition. He blew smoke in her face. She kicked him in the crotch.

 

In our goofy society, it is far easier to say, "You can't do it" than to say "Please show consideration for others" because too many won't.

 

 

[Laurie]

When our pack was preparing for its first campout this past summer, I knew of two smokers who were going. I privately spoke to each way in advance of the campout, letting them know that BSA policy does address smoking as does the camp we were attending. One had no problem with this, was glad just to know and to plan when and how to smoke--off camp property. The other reacted in a different way, stating that smoking would take place when and where he chose and noone would stop this leader. I said I wasn't trying to stop anyone, but that I'd sure hate to see anyone embarrassed at camp by being asked not to smoke due to not knowing the policy. I got a "humph" for an answer, but the following week I was thanked. There was no problem on the camping trip. On day trips, this hasn't been a problem, and the smokers wouldn't even think to light up during den meetings and pack meetings. It was a matter of giving them the knowledge--that's all. They've a right to know, and someone needed to tell them to avoid the very feelings chippewa29 expressed in the beginning of this thread.

[CharityAK]

>A friend's wife suffers from asthma and asked a >man smoking near her to not smoke because it was >aggrevating her condition. He blew smoke in her >face. She kicked him in the crotch

 

And the scenario ends like this in today's litigious climate...He sued her and won a ridiculous claim which put her family in bankruptcy court.

 

Charity

[evmori]

CharityAK,

That's sad!

 

Ed

 

[Fat Old Guy]

"And the scenario ends like this in today's litigious climate...He sued her and won a ridiculous claim which put her family in bankruptcy court."

 

Maybe if she'd been a man, instead she claimed PMS, post-partum depression and a host of other female ailments and it became the man's fault for just being alive.

[CharityAK]

FOG - ROFL! You're right! That's probably an even more likely scenario in today's culture.

 

Charity

[evmori]

Taht's even sadder

[NJCubScouter]

"Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants." -- from the Guide to Safe Scouting, Part IV (bold type in original.)

 

I do not think this is ambiguous. "May not allow" means "must prohibit." Proper English requires that the words "may not" be grouped as a phrase that modifies "allow," rather than "not allow" being a phrase modified by "may." Mother, may I? No, you may not. Mother doesn't mean that you can if you want to. Mother means that you must not, cannot, shall not.

 

I do think that the BSA made an attempt here to provide somewhat "softer" wording than it could have, out of deference to the feelings of the many Scouters who persist in smoking. Unfortunately, the BSA has given the pro-smokers an inch (maybe just a millimeter), and they have taken a mile. So I guess they do need to close this "invented" loophole.

 

I personally wouldn't mind even stronger language. Forget the stuff about "young adults," everybody is better off without tobacco, and everybody is better off not being around people who are smoking (all other things being equal, of course.) Every scientific study says so. Now (as Bob pointed out) even the tobacco companies are saying so, although they are saying so because they agreed to do so a part of a settlement of various lawsuits. Smoking kills and maims people, and in just about the most horrible ways that exist. I have seen that happen, and most of us have. Tobacco is a potent poison intentionally ingested directly into the fragile pair of organs that allow us to breathe, with absolutely predictable results. It is highly addictive, more so than many kinds of illegal narcotics. I have a daughter who managed to conceal from her parents that she was smoking from the age of about 12 to 15. She tried to quit on her own and couldn't, and after the word was finally out, she asked for help in quitting. She was given help, and she quit, and has not started again. It was not easy and it wasn't cheap, but at that point it was my highest priority in life.

 

Don't take my word for any of this, read the package.

 

I find it preposterous that we live in a society where tobacco is legal but marijuana is illegal. Tobacco is much more harmful. I am not advocating legalization of pot, but I guess I wouldn't mind if tobacco were illegal. I know it is not going to happen any time soon.

 

So how about the G2SS saying, "There shall be no smoking at any Scouting event or activity." Period. Not just around the boys, but around anybody.

 

I realize I probably have offended some people, and I apologize. Obviously I feel very strongly about this. Although I object to some of the other "names" that I have seen thrown around for people who believe as I do, call me a "radical" on this issue and I will wear it proudly. Extremism in defense of non-smoking is no vice.