Adults Smoking at Scout Events

[Chippewa29]

I'm sure just about anyone has dealt with this one, but I'd like some advice on how to deal with it. Personally, I can't stand it when adults at Scout events smoke in front of the Scouts. Although I know there is no BSA policy on it, my feeling is that any behavior you wouldn't want your Scouts to partake in shouldn't be done by the adults. About five years ago, about two-thirds of the adults (parents and non-parent volunteers) smoked. There were times when there would be 5-6 adults watching a troop activity with cigarettes hanging out of their mouthes right in front of the Scouts. When I brought up the issue of asking adults not to smoke at troop events, I almost had my head taken off, even though every single one of those adults said they wouldn't want the Scouts to smoke. I even had one Webelos leader tell me that the reason they didn't come to our troop was because of all the adults smoking at the meeting they attended.

 

Fortunately, even though the committee took no official action, most of the adults either stopped smoking at troop events (at least meetings) or were very discrete about it, making sure they were not in sight of the Scouts.

 

My troop is at the point where we only have three adults left that smoke (all three of whom will probably be gone in the next couple of years because their sons are older). None of the Scouts that has joined in the past two years has a parent that smokes.

 

I have two questions. First, how have other troops handled this issue? Also, if we get a large group crossing over in the spring from Webelos, more than likely there will be one or more parents that smoke. How do I work to create an environment where adults know that smoking is not appreciated (especially in front of the kids) without totally alienating them (thus causing them to not participate or worse, withdraw their son from the troop)?

 

I don't think smokers are bad people, but I don't think the Scouts are a place where smoking should be taking place. Anyone should be able to not smoke for 1.5 hours a week (our troop meetings) and should be able to restrain themselves some on campouts. About ten years ago, we had an adult who used a weeklong backpacking trip to successfully start quitting smoking (he said he was too tired at night to get cravings). I wish more adults would do the same thing.

[Chief Decorah]

Most of our Pack and den meetings are held at school where, of course, no smoking is allowed. At camp, however, it's a different situation. Rules at our Council camps allow smoking only in the parking lot. That's usually a fair distance from the campsite, so that's a deterrant in and of itself. It's usually not a problem during summer camp with so many people around.

 

Off-season is a different story. The few people in our Troop who smoke and attend outings take the opportunity to go down the path a short distance and light up. They at least try to be discreet about it. The problem is, technically, they're breaking a camp rule.

 

However, with the above said, the boys know that the men are smoking down the path and you should hear how the adults get criticized about what they're doing. Kids, these days, have been raised in the D.A.R.E programs and have been taught about the bad things related to smoking and alcohol. It's a lot different from how it was when we all were kids. The fact is, adults smoking is accomplishing positive results with the boys seeing it as a negative.

 

Chippewa, you wanted to know how we handle the smoking during Scouting events? We address it to the adults before hand and let them know that smoking is prohibited within the area near the Scouts. It's seldom, if ever, a problem. If it is, that person is addressed individually and reminded to take his or her smoking to the proper location. I've never had to be heavy-handed with anyone. They understand the situation.

[Mike Long]

Our SPL and PLC approached the Troop Committee a few years ago and TOLD (not asked or consulted with) the Troop Committee that our troop is a non smoking troop and that the boys would not tolerate adults smoking or using tobacco products around them. They also stated that they know that smoking is not illegal and that smokers aren't bad people but the boys don't want to be smoked around. They stated that they would not have a problem though if the adults smoked discretely and at a distance from the rest of the troop.

 

Been working fine for about 5 years now with no complaints or hard feelings and the smoking adults are still active with us. Heck, most of them were amused at how it all came down.

 

[eisely]

Actually there is a BSA policy on smoking. That policy is simply that smoking should not be done in front of youth members. This really is not an issue for our unit since so few adults in our community smoke at all. I like the idea of the boys taking the initiative on the issue.

[Rooster7]

The following is from the Guide to Safe Scouting (page 19):

 

IV. Drug, Alcohol, and Tobacco Use and Abuse

 

The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members.

 

Adult leaders should support the attitude that young adults are better off without tobacco and may not allow the use of tobacco products at any BSA activity involving youth participants.

 

All Scouting functions, meetings, and activities should be conducted on a smoke-free basis, with smoking areas located away from all participants.

 

Note: - NOT ALLOW THE USE OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS AT ANY BSA ACTIVITY INVOLVING YOUTH PARTICIPANTS

 

(By the way, the caps are for emphasis...I wasn't trying to shout)

 

To the point, you are mistaken. Your adult friends (if they fall into that category) were wrong for admonishing you. It's not only the proper thing to do, it's dictated by BSA policy.

 

[jmcquillan]

"Anyone should be able to not smoke for 1.5 hours a week (our troop meetings) and should be able to restrain themselves some on campouts."

 

So speaketh the non-smoker.

 

Look, I agree with your sympathies, but experience has shown me that those kind of sentiments work agressively against the person who is a truly addicted smoker. They smoke at home in front of the kids, so they'll not see any difference at Scouting events. I'm a former smoker, so I understand and can see points of view from both sides. The "either or" or "or else" stand will many times force the decision for the smoker to stay and change, or leave, and leaving is so much easier...unless, and only unless, s/he's trying to quit and looking for support. Both sides dig in their heals, and both sides win some, and lose some. Smokers in Scouting who I know are sympathetic enough to at least take their butts elsewhere during Scouting events. But they're a minority of the hard-core smokers out there, but they do respond to the "request" to take it elsewhere. If you're dealing with an "occassional" smoker, it's quite easy to explain to all that the BSA does not condone smoking, and their policy is that smoking must not take place in front of the boys. If you're dealing with the "hard-core" 20+ year smoker, then it's a whole different story, and you'll have to make a choice. Either you let them alone, and hope they'll abide by the policy, or you take a hardline stand and risk losing them. Simple as that, there's really no middle of the road if it's really an issue with you. Either way, it might be best for you to start letting new folks know what the policy is, and if the Committee is really behind it, let everyone know.

 

But understand that you can't have it both ways with the hardcore folks. They want, need, gotta have, and "will have, dagnabit!!!", their butts whenever and where ever they choose. Or, they won't be there. If luck is with you, then you'll be dealing with the "occassional" smoker, and they're usually a more understanding type.

 

Good luck.

 

[eisely]

Again, it depends on partly where you live. If you live in a part of the country where smoking is still quite common, and there are few restrictions on smoking in public places, it is easy to see where conflicts might arise. Here in California you cannot smoke inside public buildings and most public accomodations. Therefore smokers are already forced to go outside. I have known a handful of scouters here who were smokers and all of them handled their habit discreetly. I don't think the boys paid five seconds of attention to it.

 

Kids today are all aware that smoking is also addictive, and I suspect they look at older people smoking simply as addicts. As long as it is kept out of the way, no big deal. Aside from the smell, smoking is most dangerous to the smoker himself or herself. The dangers of second hand smoke are, in my opinion, highly overstated. I would not refuse the services of a competent adult volunteeer solely on this issue, as long as they used common sense and adhered to BSA policy.

 

For the record, I still occasionally enjoy a good cigar outside on my deck, and have never had a smoking habit.

[Mike Long]

I was very suprised when the SPL asked to address the Committee and out popped the smoking issue. I had always thought that all of our smokers handled themselves quite well and didn't think we had an issue to address.

 

We do make it a point to tell new folks about it in order to aviod any possible problems later.

[jmcquillan]

eisely,

 

I understand, from a news story that I only caught part of the other day, that there's a place here in this country where smoking on ones "deck", or anywhere in ones yard, is illegal now, if the neighbors can smell it, and complain about it.

 

That wouldn't be California would it?

 

[Rooster7]

It was Montgomery County Maryland...But a county executive (with at least half of a brain in his head) vetoed the county council's proposal. I live in Bowie, Maryland and was quite upset to hear the storyJust because I hate residing in a state where such inane laws are concocted. Fortunately, this one didn't get through.

 

By the way, down south from Montgomery County, in Kensington, Maryland, their city council tried to ban Santa Claus from the annual tree lighting ceremony. There was such a backlash, the city council had to backpedal on their position. In fact, by the time it was over, the city councilmen were trying to say they never actually banned Santa (Ho! Ho! Ho!).

 

[jmcquillan]

Hurray for common sense!!! Tar & feather those that have it not!!!

 

Interesting that so many issues today, such as smoking, are deemed such that "require" the written rule rather than common decency and common sense, and respect for others. This is supposed to be the land of the free, yet free with common decency and common sense. We shouldn't be teaching our kids to smoke, and we should be setting a better example. Time will come when things like smoking will disappear due to better education. But time will not come too soon enough for the example to be set for our kids that common sense and common decency should be the rules of the road, rather than the notion that each and every percieved infraction of anothers "space" requires a "wack" by another "law" or prohibition.

[Rooster7]

I smoked for 15 years before quitting about 12 years ago. It was quite a struggle, but well worth it. Up until about two or three years ago, on occasion, I would dream that I had smoked a cigarette. I'd wake up thinking I "blew it" until I realized there was no ashtray, no smell of smoke, etc. The dreams were quite real. I once heard about a study in which cocaine addicts said it was harder to quit smoking tobacco than to give up crack. One thing is for sure...Smoking is definitely a powerful addiction. I have many friends and family members that would gladly give up the habit but most don't think they have the strength to do it. Obituaries can be a great source of motivation...it worked for me. I didn't like reading about the deaths of guys only 10, 15, 20 years my senior. Especially since I planned to see my boys grow up, marry, have kids, etc. Now I have a two and a half year-old daughter to worry aboutGlad I quit when I did.

[eisely]

jmcquillan,

 

Rooster7 is right, the most recent smoking controversy was in Maryland. As I understood the reports, you could have been fined $750 for smoking INSIDE your own home if a neighbor complained. We should not talk about this too much, because some anti smoking fanatic here in California who has been sleeping through this will pick up on the idea.

[Chippewa29]

Wow. I didn't realize I'd get this much response this quickly. I'm glad to see that the BSA has a policy on smoking at events. Should we get more parents coming in that smoke at events and aren't discrete about it, I can at least point out the policy so it isn't such a me vs. you issue. Fortunately, the adults that smoke in our troop don't camp with us as much anymore, so we don't have the issue at the campouts as much. Also, they usually don't smoke alone. They will do it in groups. The subject came up because we had a new Scout crossover last year with a dad (very nice guy) that smoked. At a campout, the dad started smoking pretty close to the Scouts (about 40 foot away but in full view). Within five minutes, two other adults (both of whom had been with the troop for several years) who had not been smoking before were over talking to him with a cigarette lit. I didn't say anything at the time as I felt I would have caused a scene that we didn't need. That adults son quit a couple of months later (unfortunately, as he was a nice kid) and we haven't had the situation come up again. However, I don't know how to address it should that happen when we get new Scouts.

 

I don't like to discriminate against smokers because most of them are nice people who would quit if they "could". However, I have a very hard time when people have the attitude of "do as I say, not as I do".

[eisely]

Many units have a "parent manual" for new parents that lays out the policies and procedures of the unit. If your unit has such a thing, that would be a great place to state the policy. Kinda like putting up a no smoking sign.