An intersesting twist on United Way in Michigan

[eisely]

This story involves the City of Ann Arbor Michigan. The city participates in United Way as an employer. The local United Way still supports scouting. Therefore, the city council wants to pull out of United Way, or make it more difficult and costly for city employees to support charities of their choice. Dumb and dumber.

 

Ann Arbor questions Boy Scout support

 

Issues of gay rights may lead city to drop United Way campaign

August 20, 2001

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BY MARYANNE GEORGE

FREE PRESS ANN ARBOR BUREAU

 

 

 

The Ann Arbor City Council is to vote tonight on a resolution to withdraw from the Washtenaw United Way campaign because the group supports the Boy Scouts.

 

 

Democratic Councilman Stephen Hartwell, who supports the resolution, says the Boy Scouts' policy banning homosexuals as scout leaders conflicts with the city's human rights ordinance banning discrimination.

 

 

"This is a discrimination issue," Hartwell said. "The Boy Scouts wanted to exclude men and boys on the basis of sexual orientation. They want to turn it into a private organization, but they use schools and public resources."

 

 

Hartwell said council members decided to consider withdrawing from the United Way campaign, which begins next month, after negotiations seeking a compromise broke down between the city and United Way officials.

 

 

Hartwell said the city had suggested listing all 80 organizations that the United Way funds on a pledge card for city employees, including the Boy Scouts, and allowing employees to choose which charities to support.

 

 

If the employee chose the Boy Scouts, the city would not use payroll deductions to send the money to the United Way, Hartwell said.

 

 

The pledge card would also not include the United Way's community fund, which contributes to about 39 organizations, including the Boy Scouts.

 

 

Last year, the city's 950 employees donated about $45,000 to the United Way, including $25,000 to the community fund, said Jim Cieslar, president of the Washtenaw United Way. The campaign raised $8.8 million last year.

 

 

Cieslar said United Way officials oppose a campaign that limits an employee's right to choose and could not accept the compromise proposed by City Council members.

 

 

"I understand the situation they're in, and whatever we can do to make it work, we will do," Cieslar said. "The limiting of choice is the issue for us.

 

 

"The Boy Scouts are a very controversial and complicated issue. Some see this as a case of discrimination, others see as a right for a private organization to set its own standards," he said. "We respect the right of all agencies to pursue its own values and principles within the boundaries of the law."

 

 

Bob Poole, executive director of the Great Sauk Trail Boy Scouts Council, which serves about 18,000 scouts in eight counties including Washtenaw, said the issue is a matter of choice.

 

 

Last year, the council received about $91,000 from the Washtenaw United Way community fund and about $46,700 from designated donations, he said.

 

 

"Our concern with the City Council is that employees should have a right to designate whomever they wish," Poole said.

 

 

Of the 10 United Way organizations funding the Great Sauk Trail Council, only Ann Arbor is considering ending donations, Poole said.

 

 

Nationally, 10 United Way organizations, including the United Way in Allegan County, have stopped contributing to the Boy Scouts since 1992 because of its stand on homosexuals, said Gregg Shields, spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America, based in Irving, Texas.

 

 

In Ann Arbor, Republican council members Joe Upton and Marcia Higgins say they oppose the resolution because it limits employees' ability to choose a charity.

 

 

Both say contracting with an alternate fund-raising organization or reprogramming the city payroll to send donations directly to 800 charitable organizations represented in the county would not be a good use of taxpayer money.

 

 

"Without the United Way's help, total contributions to charities will be lower," Upton said. "This is an extreme interpretation of the city's human rights ordinance, which governs employment practices. It would be different if we had an application from the Boy Scouts to build a camp. Let the employees decide."

 

 

Bryan Weinert, the city's manager of resource recovery and solid waste and co-chair of the local United Way campaign, said opinions among city employees vary. But a majority are upset about the council resolution and are concerned about its possible impact on the charitable groups.

 

 

Because Democrats have a 9-2 majority on the council, the resolution has a good chance of passing, Hartwell said.

 

 

But Democratic Mayor John Hieftje said several compromises are being discussed, including contracting with an alternative fund-raiser or allowing employees to write their own pledge card for the United Way this year without listing any specific charities.

 

 

"I would like to see us take a middle path," he said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jmcquillan]

Ooooh, this is sweet.....

 

Quote___ "They want to turn it into a private organization, but they use schools and public resources."

 

Guess what...it IS a private organization. Got that one right! But we pay taxes, too. And guess where those taxes go. They pay for the schools, and the lights, and the heat, and..and...

 

Quote___ "Cieslar said United Way officials oppose a campaign that limits an employee's right to choose and could not accept the compromise proposed by City Council members."

 

Right to choose.....right to choose....RIGHT TO CHOOSE???? Golly geee, that sounds awful familiar, doesn't it??? Right (freedom) to choose....right (freedom) to associate.???

 

The two-faced PC crowd strikes again. Ever heard the phrase..."pot calling the kettle black"? It's right there in Ann Arbor. They want the BSA to rescind it's freedom to associate, or they'll take away their employees right to choose. That's great....just great. And just who elected these guys?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eisely]

This is a follow up story from the Detroit Free Press on the situation in Ann Arbor. It appears that the local scout executive may have stumbled onto a winning public relations strategy in these debates by simply calling the issue one of "choice." Who among the liberal media is opposed to choice?

 

On bias issue, Ann Arbor gives United Way a choice

 

August 21, 2001

 

BY MARYANNE GEORGE

FREE PRESS ANN ARBOR BUREAU

 

The Ann Arbor City Council approved a resolution Monday that keeps the United Way in the running for the city's charitable giving but opens the door to other fund-raising organizations that will abide by the city's nondiscrimination ordinance.

 

 

The City Council was considering a resolution to withdraw from the United Way campaign because it supports the Boy Scouts, which bans homosexuals as scout leaders. But the resolution passed 6-3 Monday night gives the United Way another chance to comply with the city's nondiscrimination ordinance. The resolution was proposed after negotiations on a compromise between the council and the United Way broke down earlier this month.

 

 

Council members who supported the proposal said it gave the United Way a chance to remain as a fund-raiser if it is willing to abide by the ordinance.

 

 

"I want to force organizations who discriminate to the table," said Stephen Hartwell, a Democrat who coauthored the resolution. "The way to get their attention is to cut off their funding source. The perception of the United Way is that they do good work. But people need to pay attention to who they fund and who they do not fund. This a wake-up call to the community."

 

 

But Mayor John Hieftje voted against the resolution, saying "It will not move the community in its resolve not to tolerate discrimination in any way."

 

 

Republican Councilwoman Marcia Higgins, who had also worked on negotiations between the city and the United Way, voted against the resolution because "I don't believe it's our job to spend public tax dollars to facilitate charitable giving."

 

 

However, the resolution said any giving program would be funded through deductions from the donations. Fund-raising organizations must submit proposals to the city by Oct. 31.

 

 

Helen Fox, who is chairman of the city's Human Rights Commission, urged the council to abide by its antibias ordinance.

 

 

"The ordinance looks good on paper but it can't do its work unless it's enforced," she said.

 

 

David Sponseller, who was a scout as a child, urged the council not to withdraw support of the United Way and the Boy Scouts. "Scouting is under attack based within the homosexual organization of America. Homosexuals shouldn't lead Boy Scouts any more than men shouldn't lead Girl Scouts."

 

 

Last year, the city's 950 employees donated about $45,000 to the United Way, including $25,000 to the community fund, said Jim Cieslar, president of the Washtenaw United Way. The campaign raised $8.8 million last year.

 

 

Bob Poole, executive director of the Great Sauk Trail Boy Scouts Council, which serves about 18,000 scouts in eight counties including Washtenaw, said last week the issue is a matter of choice.

 

 

Last year, the council received about $91,000 from the Washtenaw United Way community fund and about $46,700 from designated donations, he said.

 

 

Of the 10 United Way organizations funding the Great Sauk Trail Council, only Ann Arbor is considering ending donations, Poole said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jmcquillan]

I stumbled on this in another forum. It seems that folks in the city of Flint, Michigan are annoyed with the BSA, too.

 

This story was published August 23, 2001 by the Flint Journal in Michigan.

HEADLINE: Boy Scout gay policy draws protest

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By Sheena Harrison

 

Flint - Nearly 50 people picketed the local Boy Scouts council Wednesday, presenting it with a "badge of shame" for excluding openly gay men from the organization.

Flint-area members of Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) were protesting a policy adopted by the Boy Scouts of America.

"I look forward to the day when 'straights only,' like 'whites only,' will not be tolerated by those who recognize the dignity and worth of all of our children," said local PFLAG President Mary Scholl to a crowd standing outside the office of the Tall Pine Council at 507 W. Atherton Road.

The protesters, which included several children, picketed the office and chanted in the rain for nearly an hour before going inside to present the badge to Tall Pine Council executives. No Boy Scout officials were available to receive the round purple patch with a pink triangle and the word "homophobia" embroidered on it.

 

[Bob Russell]

The article in the Flint Journal notes that 50 Flint-area protesters were involved. Actually, this protest was the statewide protest in Michigan sponsored by Scouting For All, a part of their nationwide protests last week. A portion of the announcement on their web site for the Flint protest reads as follows:

 

"We plan to hold a Rally at the Tall Pine Council building. Statements will be read by a variety of people. We hope that every town in Michigan will be represented. Please come with a sign that includes your city's name. Let's make a difference. We support Scouting for All."

 

As you can see, they called for support throughout Michigan and got maybe 50 protesters. Hardly a groundswell of support.

 

The Scouting for All website has had no information on the results or sizes of their protests. I have seen little reporting of any protests, only references to some very small turnouts. To me this shows not a strong movement of grassroots opposition to Scouting, but instead a well organized but small movement that gets more publicity that its support would otherwise indicate is appropriate. But this is often the case with well organized movements - if the media believes in the cause, it will often fuel the support and make the movement appear larger or stronger than it is.

[eisely]

We should consider the idea of organizing counter protests on the same day. That should make things interesting. The problem is coming up with an appropriate theme statement that can't be misconstrued, either deliberately or unintentionally, as bigotry. A suggested poster: "Choice in scouting"

 

Thoughts?

[Rooster7]

How about..."Scouting for Traditional Values"?

[Bob Russell]

How about "Celebrate Diversity . . . of Ideas"

[OldGreyEagle]

I like Celebrate Diversity of Ideas...

 

I was wondering, what are traditional values?

 

Of the Judeo-Christian or Islamic or Budhist or Hindu or Shinto nature?

[Rooster7]

I know what Bob Russell means when he says, "Celebrate Diversity of Ideas"...Unfortunately, the "other side" will claim that it's really their slogan.

 

OldGreyEagle, I appreciate your Scouting wisdom, and truly don't want to offend you, but I feel it is a sad commentary when we have to re-examine and clarify the phrase "traditional values" in this country.

 

[Mike Long]

How about "Keep your politics off my son."

Or, "Exactly how many of you are Scouts?"

I especially like "Keep off the grass."

 

Sorry, feeling a little punchy this morning.

 

[jmcquillan]

A better, and more effective way to do that would be to have a multitude of Scouters, (no children, please), dressed in uniform, surrounding the protesters in a double line, no signs, no slogans, saying nothing.......

 

 

....Just silent vigil. A Scout is Courteous.

 

Imagine the impact....silent, courteous, counter-protest.

[eisely]

I like the idea of a silent protest, but one would still need signs so that you would not be confused by the media as part of the scouting for all protest. I agree with OGE's comment about building "traditional values" into the the theme. It is not that I am opposed to traditional values, but a lot of people are automatically turned off by that phrase.

 

If one were to seriously do something like this, one needs a simple message that reaches the "undecided." The purpose of a demonstration is to reach others, not those already on your side. This is where using some of the words of the critics of scouting in a clever way can yield some value. "Diversity of ideas" or "choice in scouting," while intentionally vague, will grab attention and get a more serious play in any media covering the protest.

[Rooster7]

Eisely,

 

I hear ya...But I prefer not to wear their clothing. We should be more forthright and state it like is...as Mike Long alluded to in his last post. We don't have to hide our true beliefs to gain support (which is exactly what they've been doing for years). Lets not become like them, in an attempt to defeat them. The "undecided" are usually confused and easily deceived. They will change their minds from one day to the next depending on what the media tells them. I'm convinced that the key to a successful counter protest is to awaken dormant believers. But alas, perhaps I just want to believe we already out number them.

[eisely]

Rooster7

 

If one could do an honest poll right now of the American people and their attitudes towards scouting, I think you would find a growing ambivalence because of all the bad press. The news media are overwhelming liberal in outlook and will continue to take shots at scouting every chance they get. It would be nice to believe that the overwhelming majority of all americans support the position of scouting on this issue, but I fear that the tide is going the other way. Clearly there are also going to be geographic differences. I would wager that attitudes towards scouting exactly mirror the "map" that all the pundits talk about showing the distribution of electoral votes in the last presidential election. This is what concerns me. Those who already respect traditional values do not need to be convinced. It is the ones who are in the middle that need to be awakened. I am not trying to deceive anybody. Once one gets their attention, it is not too difficult to steer the discussion where you want it to go. It is important to get the dialogue going where it matters, and to do that requires getting their attention in a way that they will respond to positively.