Jesse Helms to the Rescue

[eisely]

This is one about which I have mixed feelings. I am a poltical conservative, but Jesse is not my favorite Senator. Nevertheless he has put forth an amendment to the current education bill working its way through congress that you may wish to contact your senator and representive about. I also am not a fan of the feds using funding to bludgeon local governments, but this time I will make an exception.

 

Helms Steps Squarely into Gays vs. Boy Scout Debate

 

Wednesday, May 16, 2001

By Steve Centanni

 

 

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Stepping squarely between two of the moment's more implacable foes, Republican Senator Jesse Helms has introduced legislation that would effectively cut off federal funding to public schools that refuse to allow Boy Scouts to use their facilities because of the group's stance on homosexuals.

 

 

Via an amendment to the education bill now snaking its way through Congress, the North Carolina senator is proposing to cut off federal largess to any school or educational agency that denies equal access to the Scouts or any youth group because of their "leadership criteria" or whether or not they have an "oath of allegiance to God and country."

 

In recent months, school districts in North Carolina, Florida, New York and several other states have restricted the Scouts' access to campus facilities, saying the group's ban on homosexuals violates the districts' anti-discrimination policies.

 

Such moves have become commonplace since last year, when, after a lengthy legal battle between gay rights groups and the Boy Scouts, the Supreme Court ruled that the Scouts, as a private organization, have the right to ban gay scoutmasters.

 

Helms said the purpose of withholding the money is not to hurt the schools financially but to force them to change their policy of undercutting the high court's decision.

 

"Those who demand everybody else's principles must be laid aside in order to protect the rights of homosexuals' conduct, they go on and on like Tennyson's brook," he said. "These radical militants are up to their same old tricks when targeting an honorable and respectable organization."

 

But one gay political group, the Human Rights Campaign, said it's Helms who is acting like a radical militant. The Boy Scouts already enjoy First Amendment protections, the group says, and Helms is trying to create special protections for the Boy Scouts by helping them in gaining access to school facilities.

 

A Senate vote on the funding issue is expected later this week.

 

Fox News' Sharon Kehnemui contributed to this report

 

 

[jmcquillan]

[Ed - jmc steps up to the mike. Doffing his cloak of conservatism and donning his cloak of invisibility, he faces the gathered multitude and presses forth to the microphone, saying...]

 

"Whoohooo....go Jesse..."

 

[jmc quickly exits the stage, invisible to all, gathers his pile of cloaks, and disappears into the night....]

 

[Mike Long]

Who was that masked Scouter?

[eisely]

The most recent version of this amendment was SA574, short title "The Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act." Apparently this was killed by tabling on May 17. I don't know if Helms or anybody else plans to resurrect this.

[DFlah]

Isn't the denial of access to schools etc. because of our position on the homosexual issue a denial of our right of free speach? (depriving us of access due to our beliefs). I also remember somewhere that homosexuality isn't a protected class.

[eisely]

The US Supreme Court upheld the right of BSA to discriminate based on the first amendment, I believe. Sexual orientation is not protected in any federal legislation although our recent ex president made discrimination on this basis in civilian employment matters by federal executive branch agencies against policy by executive order.

 

The issue arises in a state and local context because many states and local governmental bodies have either statutory protections or other types of policies regarding sexual orientation in place. In fact, both the Dale and Curran cases against BSA, brought in New Jersey and California respectively, were based on state statutes prohibiting such discrimination by businesses. The narrow issue that was litigated was whether or not BSA is a business.

 

Where a school district has a policy against such discrimination, it can become a grounds for denying access to facilities by BSA if the district chooses to press the issue. The most prominent case in this area of which I am aware is ongoing in Broward Country Florida. The county school district there issued an edict last fall evicting all scout units from its facilities. The district lost in federal court, but the district may be successful in forcing scout units to pay for access, while others get free access.

 

The Helms amendment would not by itself outlaw such actions by a school district, but would make such districts ineligible for federal funds.

[Mike Long]

The bill is not dead, in fact a version of it just passed the House of Representatives.

 

The article can be found at FoxNews.com.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,25615,00.html

[jmcquillan]

Although we may be getting into simple semantics here, I like to think that the Supreme Court decision in favor of the Boy Scouts did not uphold our "right to discriminate"...it uphelp "right to choose"...our right to "freedom of association". I know it may just be semantics to many, but I like to think of the issue that way, not as a right to discriminate, which leaves a very bad taste with me.

 

We do, indeed, have a right to choose who will lead our scouts, and what kind of example they will set. Lifestyle is part and parcel of that image with me. Thus, we "choose", and we choose based on values that are common to all of us. Although a person of the homosexual persuasion may claim that his values are the same, his choice of lifestyle goes against the grain of that claim and the base values that we hold dear.

 

Probably just semantics, but to me, there's light years of difference.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I agree JM, and while I hope never to make an Anti-Semantical remark. You are correct, the Boy Scouts dont discriminate, rather we set standards by which our leaders and members must live. As a private organization we are have the right to decide membership requirements. When we recite the scout oath, we say will be physically strong, (not necessary pumping iron, but physically active)mentally awake ( to me this means no drugs)and morally straight ( and we define this).

 

Many politicians talk about charactor and values in vague nebulous terms. BSA actually explains what they mean by these terms and for that we are vilified.

 

We say what we do and do what we say

 

And actually I would prefer not to have govermental help. We are strong enough to stand by oursleves and find our own way.

[Tiny1pj]

The only disagreement I have with Oldgreyeagle's last comment is in regard to when we have to fight government based discrimination.

 

Only in that case should we look to governement to help our "fight" to remain as we are.

 

Here in Lander, many dens meet in the schools, and if the bans on using school property for scout meetings in the east hold, then that may not be an option.

 

For ONLY cases where governmental agencies (local, state, or federal) attempt to restrict the meeting of any scouting group, we do need to have the protection.

[eisely]

Apparently this legislation is still very much alive as of June 7. The legislation has now passed the House of Representatives and it is up to the Senate. Those who care should contact their U.S. Senators right away. More information can be found on a conservative web site called "grassfire." I am not endorsing grassfire, but merely informing you of its existence.

[Glenn]

Some of you may be interested to know that Dr. Laura Schlessinger went on a rant about all of her listeners to call their Senators and tell them to support this bill. She explained how she felt that it was a freedom of speech issue. If the Scouts wish to enforce morality as they see it, then no other institution should be allowed to force them to change.

 

After listening to her and reading about his issue, I then emailed my Senators. Even though I am anti-Helms (should have retired years ago), I still like this bill.

[eisely]

I am stunned and amazed that this actually passed the Senate. Assuming the amendment survives conference, and Bush signs the legislation, this may actually become the law of the land. This just popped up on the internet this afternoon.

 

Way to go Jesse!

 

Senate Backs Scouts Despite Gay Rights Protest

By Adam Entous

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate voted on Thursday to punish public schools that deny the Boy Scouts equal access to their facilities, drawing fire from gay rights activists protesting the youth group's policy of excluding homosexuals.

 

Conservative Republicans said the legislation, approved 52-48 as an amendment to a far-reaching education reform bill, would protect the Boy Scouts and its nearly 5 million members between the ages of 11 and 17 against ``discrimination'' by school leaders unhappy with the group's policies.

 

Democrats countered that the amendment, which has already been approved by the House of Representatives, smacked of ``gay bashing'' and would undermine local authority.

 

Under the amendment, pushed by North Carolina Republican Sen. Jesse Helms (news - bio - voting record), public schools must provide the Boy Scouts with equal access to school facilities. Schools that fail to do so could lose their federal funding.

 

The Boy Scouts deny membership to any ``avowed homosexual,'' saying homosexuality violates the Scouting oath to be ``morally straight'' and the Scouting law to be ``clean.''

 

On a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court last year upheld the Scouts' policy, ruling the private group had the right to set its own moral code and espouse its own viewpoint.

 

The Boy Scouts, who also exclude atheists and agnostics as leaders, argued they had the right to decide who should join their ranks and that forcing them to accept gays would violate their First Amendment right to freedom of association.

 

Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota warned that school districts could be forced to give the Boy Scouts ''special privileges or lose thousands, perhaps millions, of dollars in federal aid to education.''

 

DISCRIMINATION

 

Senate Republicans cited nearly 10 cases of discrimination against the Boy Scouts by public schools.

 

In November 2000, the Los Angeles City Council voted to cut the city's ties with the Boy Scouts, saying the group's exclusion of homosexuals and atheists was discriminatory.

 

``I don't know quite how to react to the fact that in America now even the Boy Scouts seem to be under attack. Is motherhood and apple pie next? Is there nothing sacred any more?'' said Senate Republican Leader Trent Lott of Mississippi.

 

Gay rights groups protested the amendment, calling it anti-gay and unnecessary because the Scouts have never lost their right to meet in public school facilities.

 

``The only thing it accomplishes is sending out an anti-gay message,'' said David Smith, spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign.

 

Senate Democrats said the amendment could end up benefiting white supremacist groups, including the Ku Klux Klan. ``Senator Helms, in trying to pay a tribute to the Boy Scouts, has opened the door wide for mischief from every crazy group in America,'' said Sen. Richard Durbin (news - bio - voting record), an Illinois Democrat.

 

More than 90 million Americans have joined the Boy Scouts since the organization was founded in 1910. It now has nearly 5 million members between the ages of 11 and 17 and nearly 1.3 million adult leaders.

 

 

[frankj]

The school board in Eugene OR denied the Boy Scouts access to schools so this has been a topic of discussion on conservative radio in Portland, OR. Today we got news of the amendment that seeks to reverse these actions by local school boards at the risk of them losing federal money. I like the victory for the Scouts, but I don't like the way it came about. This is coercion, plain and simple and it is wrong for government to use our tax money, or the withholding of same to force a certain type of behaviour. The Eugene school board would not have pulled this stunt if enough people, Scouters and non-Scouters had risen up and said in so many words, "You are nuts. What rational society would NOT want an organization with the ideals of Boy Scouts active in its schools, its communities, and the nation?"

[jmcquillan]

Certainly an interesting turn of events. It seems to me that the shoe may be on the other foot now for groups who have been challenging the BSA access to public facilities.

 

Michael Resnick, executive director of the National School Board Assocation (NSBA) stated that this bill now takes the right to decide who uses facilities away from the local school districts.

 

Well, well, well. It seems to me that the NSBA, and their evil partners, the ACLU, were using the argument that school districts that received federal funding must adhere to either local or some national standard of non-discrimination in order to keep getting those funds. Now the provider of those funds is setting the stage to say that they will define how access will be defined. That seems in order to me. It takes the ACLU right out of the scenario, doesn't it? Their argument is down the drain, for the government which provides the funding is saying that they want a say in how access to public facilities is handled if they are to continue giving those funds.

 

The NSBA and the ACLU can't have it both ways. They're speaking out of a different side of the mouth now, for sure.