All Training Expires in Two Years?

[JoeBob]

During a recent conversation regarding Shooting Sports Range Safety Officers, our DE mentioned that 'all training expires after two years'.

 

Huh? I told him that I didn't think so. I recalled a topic of conversation during my certification class about being able to stay certified if you taught every year. One instructor posited that you could miss one year, but if you missed two, you would have to get re-trained. I told the DE that I'd look it up and get back to him.

 

Well dang! I was wrong and he was right. All the current literature on shooting sports certification requires re-training every two years.

 

I've got two questions for my wise forum fellows:

 

1- Has it always been this way, or is re-trainig every two years a recent addition?

 

2- Why? For the life of me, I can't think of decent reason to require a scouter who has two years experience running an archery or BB range to waste another day getting re-trained. It's not like fiberglass bows and arrows are evolving that quickly.

 

Volunteers willing to cook their brains in the sun for a week are hard enough to entice without adding silly re-training. Nothing I picked up in certification training could not be learned from the Shooting Sports Manual.

http://scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor%20Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf

If I had known that it was only valid for two years, I might not have stepped up.

As it is, I was illegal for my last year...

Oops.

The boys loved it.

[fred8033]

Yeah, I've been burnt by the two year training too. I'm getting my next certs thru NRA and USA Archery association. They don't expire if keep your registration current.

[Eagle92]

Been around for a long time, with the exception of the NCS certifie4d folks which is 5 years.

 

Part of the rationale is that things change, which is true, and also to make sure folks remember what is suppose to be done.

 

I remember getting my CS bb and archery cert and when I went to CSDC, the CD was saying we needed to do things which were no longer required. They hadn't been recertified. PLUS they tried to tell me I was doing something wrong, when the new procedures showed the change and I was correct.

 

I view it like I view CPR: that's one skill I don't mind redoing every 2 years ( or in the case of CPR every two weeks when I teach class )

[Oak Tree]

Not "all training", but I think that pretty much all of the safety training does expire in two years. The range certifications have been that way for awhile, at least since I first became aware of it (maybe eight years ago).

 

Training like "Troop Committee Challenge", BALOO, and IOLS don't expire, but the swimming, boating, climbing, shooting, and youth protection all do.

 

I assume that the stated reason would be to prevent people from falling into bad habits. If you don't go for retraining, you can slowly forget what the stated standard is, or something like that.

[BSA24]

I too was burned by this. Yes, it is a change.

 

It used to be that you were trained, and then had to use the training by working as an officer on a range at least once a year to keep it current. Now it expires at two years.

 

It's ridiculous for running a shooting sports range.

 

Like the other guy above me, I too am seeking NRA training and abandoning BSA as a training source so I can get a more professional training experience and not have it expire in my face.

 

Every time I have retrained for shooting sports, I have been more and more disappointed with the quality of the training. The last class I was in, the council employee doing the teaching pointed the "don't call it a weapon" at me and then protested my ducking by saying it wasn't loaded. He wasn't aim-pointing, careless pointing is more accurate while looking at someone else.

 

BSA really is not equipped to offer this training in all councils. Sometimes the training is pretty bad.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by BSA24)

[blw2]

So the NRA trining will apply to BSA camp ranges?

Good to know for future reference.....

 

More to the title of this thread, I was poking around online just the other day and stumbled accross a page that listed the duration of most of the on-line training (leader specific, safety afloat, etc...) that I've taken. I think it was ALL two years.

 

I do see value in refresher training, but as previously mentioned, if avolunteer has to take significant time to go some distance to a physical class to refresh on something that they already know, than that is a big negative. Seems like they should do an online refresher with a short but legitimate quiz that actually verifies knowledge.... wouldn't that be more attractive?

[JoeBob]

Eagle92: Gotta disagree.

 

In the shooting sports things don't change.

 

Can you tell me one significant procedural change from ten years ago that affects how you'd run a firing line? Something that can't be communicated in a memo and hence deserves your being retrained? (Things can change for the worse - Nitpicking rules and procedures that add nothing positive to the program.)

 

Actually running a shooting program for a week teaches you way more than you'll ever learn at a certification class. And you remember the lessons learned on the line with first and second graders swarming about.

 

***

The troop has drafted me to get the NRA training for rifle and shotgun. Since NRA certs don't expire if you use them, I'll carry on with the troop. But I'll never squander my time on further BSA short-lived 'training'.

 

BSA claims to want experienced instructors, but them goes out of the way to discourage the people with the experience.

[BSA24]

> BSA claims to want experienced instructors,

> but them goes out of the way to discourage

> the people with the experience.

 

BSA prioritizes avoiding lawsuit risk over the program in everything they do.

[Beavah]

Interestin'.

 

Have to agree with JoeBob, eh? There's no reason for the BSA to depart from the "industry norm" set by the NRA, where such certification does not expire.

 

What it does do is increase the likelihood of poor quality training, as yeh have to find lots more people to offer the training for groups that frequently, or make the groups bigger so there's less personal attention.

 

Not good risk management, really.

 

B

 

[JMHawkins]

What it does do is increase the likelihood of poor quality training, as yeh have to find lots more people to offer the training for groups that frequently, or make the groups bigger so there's less personal attention.

 

Not good risk management, really.

 

I'm sensing a pattern here...

 

Seems that could be said about quite a few other "risk management" implementations as well. The emphasis is on centralized bureaucracy and paperwork, rather than on proficiency and results. Process over performance.

[Eagle92]

JB,

 

Again I must disagree. Yes 99.99999% of the things I learned in JROTC and when I first started teaching in 1995 are the same, one thing that did change was how to carry the arrows. Again very, very minor.

 

Question in regards to NRA certs, do you have to do continuing ed, for lack of a better term, to keep your certification? I know with CPR instructor training, I have to teach so many classes in a 2 year period and do an Instructor review session every 2 years if memory serves. And of course, when they change CPR every 5 fives, mandatory training session in the new procedures. I never did a review session when my 2 years was up b/c I did the mandatory training on new procedures in stead.

 

Also with another cert I have, I have to do x number of hours teaching over a year, and go through either an instructor recert, or take an advance instructor class, every 4 years.

[JoeBob]

Eagle92,

 

If I have to waste an extra day to pick-up that .00001% of different protocol that someone wrote differently in order to justify their salary; I'm not going to do it. BSA needs to respect my time.

 

My understanding is that NRA classes for Rifle Instructor and Range Safety Officer do not expire as long as you teach at least one course per year. The classes cost from $200 to $300 to take, depending on where you take them. Does anyone know if BSA requires an NRA certified RSO to take Cub Scout Shooting Sports training every two years? ( I bet they do...)

 

They changed how they want the boys to carry their arrows as they walk from the targets to the firing line? Two hands on the arrow shafts is not longer adequate? Whada they want? Three hands?