Woodbadge First time staffers vs Senior Staffers

[moosetracker]

In the thread on trying to figure out what woodbadge is all about.. Eamonn brought up the fact the old course ran with guys who staffed over and over and over never letting anyone new into the course. And that even when the new course started the old regime stayed glued to their positions. On the 3rd course when he took over he was a rebel because he came in with alot of first time staffers..

 

From what I am told, Currently the 21st century course is suppose to have something like 2/3 the staff be first time staffers, while the others go through a few courses being groomed to someday be the course director. Once course director you are retired from being on another staff.. Many may stay as elfs, or one staff position for them is as mentor to the current course director.

 

In a way you can look at being on staff as furthering your education in Wood Badge. Although during Wood Badge it should be all about the participant.. The senior staff is further working to empower the junior staff during the year long staff meetings leading up to wood badge.. And they will be their for support and guidence, if you stumble (which I did) during the wood badge course. They pick you up, give you words of advise, and get you back in the game.

 

Now I don't know about other courses but our Course normally have the junior staffers as the Troop Guides and maybe Scribe.. Scribe could though be a 2nd year position. I heard from a past course director that when they went to the Course Director class (I think in Philmont).. When he mentioned Troop Guide was a first year staffer position, they were astounded and thought us wrong for doing so.

 

To me it is the perfect place. The position of TG is still to be a youth postion, and so if the TG is a little new and green at the position of TG, it much more corresponds to a youth as the TG.. They may make some mistakes, and need some guidence themselves to carry out their position.

 

Not only that the TG as first years, seem to bond tightly almost like their own patrol. They have to work together doing their own patrol presentation, and working on doing a campfire and interfaith worship service.. They are in every sense of the word an extension of what the participants go through, at a more expreinced level..

 

Also I don't see how you can take any of the other course staff jobs. For example ASM of Troop Guides is hard as a first year staffer guiding Troop Guides who are all 2,3,4, 5th year staffers.. ASM of program when you are green to the program.. Quartermaster.. Maybe, if you run a restraunt or some other job that requires organizing inventory and running a kitchen. ASM - Physical Arangements, those guys were hopping and 5 steps ahead of everyone else to make sure everything was setup and in it's place.. Can't see it for a first year staffer who does not know the setup well (Let me tell you I have alot of respect for those who have done the job of physical arrangement..)

 

How many Old to new time staff do you have on your wood badge courses? And where are the traditional positions you put your first time staffers? And do you think it is good to let new blood into the staff or should it be always run by the same staffers year after year?

[Basementdweller]

As a participant I don't understand the joke about the maple syrup or the purple pancakes. I don't get why Bob is wearing high heals. Or the joke about the power rangers sleeping bag. Not too sure about the golden coffee cup either.

 

While camaraderie is fun and experienced staff are important. I believe that my experience suffered because of long time staff members.

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

Over the years, many years!!

I've had some really wonderful times at Wood Badge courses.

While there are times when I do feel a little upset and maybe resentful that I've been put out to pasture because of the rule that doesn't allow anyone who has served as CD to return unless there is dire reasons.

I of course feel that I still have a lot to offer.

But...

I do see that one of the things that happened with the old course was that Wood Badge was very much a place for the good old boys and very few new faces were ever seen.

I welcomed the rule that set a percentage of new staff members for each course.

To my mind the most important position is the Troop Guide.

The TG has the most interaction with the participants and has the final word on tickets.

While the CD sets the tone for the course, this if it's done right?? Is all done long before the participants ever arrive.

To be very honest during the time the course I was CD was going on. I felt very much like I had nothing to do.

When it came to selecting who was going to do what?

I chose the people I knew who would do the best job.

My SPL had served on one course as a staff member, but the guy is very charismatic, is a knowledgeable scouter, but my main reason for selecting him was his ability to communicate. In the real world he is a Lutheran Minister, with a PhD in theology (From Oxford!!)

I'd seen the great job the person I selected as Scribe was doing as a R/T Commissioner and having her serve as Scribe was a no brainer as far as I was concerned.

One big problem I faced was that our course is a cluster course, which means that inviting people from other Councils is expected and as a rule if the person is going to be the CD for the next course offered the expectation is that a position of "Rank" will be offered. 99% of the time the person is well suited and a good choice. The guy I got from another Council mustn't have liked me very much? After one meeting he emailed me and said that he didn't think it was going to work out. I was happy that he was that up front.

 

The most important thing a CD can do is install in ALL the people on staff the idea that they really are there to serve the participants. The course isn't about them, extra beads or any sort of power or ego.

Having the right person doing the right job is very important.

My mentor was big on having everyone do at least one presentation. The truth was that I had some great people working in positions like QM doing an outstanding job, but ask them to cover a presentation was asking for a disaster.

The time to develop a Wood Badge course has been cut back a lot, having new people makes the developing task a lot harder so having and selecting people do jobs that you know that they can do and are good at rather than moving them out of their comfort zone seems silly and just as in real scouting no rank or title out ranks or is more important than any other.

Ea.

[OwntheNight]

While I've never staffed WB, (hope to be asked for next summer) I know quite a few people who are in the circle and have either just staffed their first or second course. The typical setup is that first years are encouraged to be a TG. Part of the reasoning, is that a first year will still have the enthusiasm for WB, and there is still a relative freshness for them coming back so quickly after being awarded their beads. Obviously, a lot depends on the CD, and what he/she feels is the strength of the individual. If they're not real out going, TG might not be the best position for them, but if they're very organized, QM or AQM would be a good fit.

Our council encourages all of our CD's to use first or second year staffers as much as possible. We run 4 WB courses per year, what I see, is that each camp that hosts WB tends to have it's own circle of staff that goes through the different senior positions, with new staff rounding out the TG and AQM positions. Once you get in that circle, you tend to follow those senior leaders through their staff career, until it's your time as CD. By then, you have a circle of trust with staffers you've developed relationships with, and then the circle starts over.

There are always going to be staffers who like to do one job only and don't want to move to other positions. My TG absolutely loved being a TG, but that's all she wants to do when she staffs. It certainly worked out for me, she was well prepared, and understood the material backward and forward. I could pick her brain for insight into some of those "AHA" moments.

[moosetracker]

Eamonn - That is what this course director was told when he went to the CD training at Philmont. That TG was the most important job, therefore should not be given to the first year staffers.

 

But, in a troop the job of TG and SPL, ASPL etc. are the jobs of our older youth. They are to take on the most important role of guiding our younger scouts to become seasoned scouts and to someday replace the mentors as the seasoned scouts.. We can guide our older scouts but must trust in their ability.. If we do not, that is when the adults stick their fingers in the pie and take on the leadership responsibilities that the older scouts should be doing.. And the troop takes a tumbling dive from their.

 

So, if Wood Badge is about emulating how we mentor and guide our youth to lead for themselves, why should we not give the most important role of TG to the First year staffer, then have the senior staffers mentor and guide them??

 

I think it added to the course, and gave the participants a deeper sense of how this whole mentoring and guiding process takes place. They bonded to these slightly green, just getting their feet wet first time staffer in a way I do not think they would have someone who had been in the program so long that they could do it backward, blindfolded.

 

Their troop guides were simply "one of them"..

[moosetracker]

OwnTheNight - There are always going to be staffers who like to do one job only and don't want to move to other positions. My TG absolutely loved being a TG, but that's all she wants to do when she staffs. It certainly worked out for me, she was well prepared, and understood the material backward and forward

 

Strange I thought that it wasn't totally taboo, but it was frowned upon to have someone repeat the same postion. So once a TG, if you return it shouldn't be as TG again, it would have to be as something else.

 

Many people state they only were on staff once as TG, because they don't think they would like any other position. But that is fine, because that way they understand that they can't stay on staff over and over as TG and except the fact and move over for the position to be open for other first timers.. Those who want to be CD someday, work a variety of positions and have a better feel for what each position calls for and can choose someone qualified for the job when they become CD.

[shortridge]

I'm asking this as a complete WB outsider ... How many staff members does it take to put on a course for a class of 40 people?

 

My back-of-the-envelope calculation comes out to about 15. Five troop guides (one per 8-person patrol), a course director, assistant course director, a quartermaster & assistant (food ordering for everyone & cooking for staff), and a handful of other staffers to run program sessions not taught by the troop guides. Everyone pitches in to set up program areas & such. What am I missing?

[emb021]

"Eamonn brought up the fact the old course ran with guys who staffed over and over and over never letting anyone new into the course. And that even when the new course started the old regime stayed glued to their positions."

"From what I am told, Currently the 21st century course is suppose to have something like 2/3 the staff be first time staffers, while the others go through a few courses being groomed to someday be the course director."

 

 

Not quite.

 

In the old course (ie, pre-"WB for the 21st Century"), it was EXTREMELY hard to get on staff. Per the literature, a council had to really justify why they were adding someone new to staff. Some councils were good at working to bring in "new blood", rather then had the whole staff be fill out course directors. But many weren't.

 

To address this, with the current WB, a certain percentage HAD to be new staffers. NO, its not 2/3 new, its 1/3 new. This IS in the admin guide. To be a CD, you must have been a troop guide and one other position. Most councils have worked out who will be the future CD for the next 1-2 courses. And once you are CD, you are more or less done.

 

This was done to address the issues of elitism and such that pervaded WB staff. Another thing that was done was to cut back on the amount of staff development required, as this too often limited the pool of potential staffers.

 

 

[moosetracker]

For a full course of 48 participants, we run at about 20 staffers. They are grouped as 6 person patrols not 8 person patrols, so that is 8 Troop guides.

 

We have two Scribes, and having stayed up until one or two in the morning each night, and needing to be up by 6:30.. and on the last night staying up to 4:30 (so only having 2 hours of sleep while my fellow scribe did not go to bed at all that night.. I would not even think of making that one scribe. We get one elf (elves are helpers, but not staff), for being every where to take photos..

 

We have two for physical arrangements and those two were running non-stop.. I could not see only having one for that either..

 

Then their is you Course director (or Scoutmaster)

your SPL who is also part of the limelight with the Troop Guides as in who is leading them.

ASM of program, who organizes the schedule and makes sure everyone knows what they are suppose to do, when they are to be at activities and when not etc..

Quarter master with a whole bunch of Kitchen Elves who help but are not "considered on staff".

ASM of Troop Guides.. Maybe not so important if all your TG are seasoned WB staffers but needed when they are mainly first time staffers as they need more guidence then the ASM of program can provide.

 

An optional position we have is that of Mentor to the Course director.

 

There are other optional positions that we do not use.. I also saw in a different WB course they had 4 Scribes on staff, where we only have 2 and I guess they say you should run with only 1 and have everyone else be elves..

 

Therefore I guess you have some leeway in your course as to how many are on staff. But you are warned to not have Staffer creep, as it is not about the staff, it is about the participants.

 

Woodbadge is more then your normal training, as the simulation of you being part of a troop is almost like carrying on a well timed show where the participants are part of the cast.. Sort of like a Mystery dinner theater but more so, as the participants do not get silly little bit parts, they are the main charactors of the cast..

 

In carrying on the training in a very intensive staged setting, it takes alot of staffers to carry on the behind the scenes so that it looks well organized..

 

For the Quarter Master remember he is feeding almost 70+ people. The participants and staff of a full course make almost 70. Then the elves, then their are visitors such as the old course directors are invited to the blue and gold and the Staff recognition dinner.. He is feeding them for Breakfast/Lunch / Dinner for a full 3 days after that sometimes it is just the staff as the participants do their own meal planning and cooking out at their patrol sites. Then their is the dish cleanup. That is more then one QuarterMaster can handle all by themselves. They also maintain the budget of all the other purchases for woodbadge.

[shortridge]

Thanks for clearing that up, moose. I was imagining that the course director would be in charge of scheduling and would fill the SPL role, that the participants would be cooking most/all meals themselves and that all the staffers would be up to speed on how to mentor properly. And I didn't consider the scribe a key position.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[SR540Beaver]

Shortridge,

 

It varies from council to council. Our council runs two course a year and this is a typical staff design.

 

Course Director

SPL

ASM Program

Scribe and 2 Assistant Scribes under ASM Program

ASM Physical Arrangements

Quartermaster and 2 AQM's under ASM PA

ASM Troop Guides

8 Troop Guides under ASM TG's

 

That's 19 people on staff. At least 1/3 are new staff members. New staff members typically fill most of the TG slots, but not all as there is a need to have some who know the ropes. They also might fill Assistant Scribe or AQM spots. The rest of the positions are filled by experienced staff.

 

Our QM staff isn't burdened with cooking. They design the menu and procure the grub, but they don't cook and clean and stick to the moving and heavy lifting type stuff. We have "support staff" which is made up of previous course directors who have to be asked just like regular staff to help with the course. This is not a glorious or honored position. they literally are up at the crack of dawn preparing meals and washing dishes and spend 90% of their time in the kitchen out of site of the participants.

[Eamonn]

To go along with what emb021 posted.

Back when we had the old Boy Scout Course, I never staffed a course where there were anymore than four new staff members.

Being as we are part of a cluster with six other Councils it seemed to be that two new guys were from the home Council and I'm not sure how the other two got selected?

There did seem to be more new faces at the Cub Scout Course, I think this was due to it being a Regional Course?

Not everything was all bad about the "Olde Boy" Course.

Most times the guys knew the course and knew each other which made things work better.

But I staffed a few courses where the "Add Ons" Had taken over and the course really was more about "Hey look at us staffers and how good we are!!" More than anything else.

 

I will stand by the idea of having the best Person do the job that they are best suited for over than trying to have some kind of progression or promotion of staff members.

Clearly having do what they do best is the best for the participants.

As for TG in the "Real World" Being what happens?

I'd bet that over 90% of the Troops in the area where I'm at don't use TG.

I don't like the idea and will never use a New Scout Patrol. My thinking is that Patrols where the ages are mixed just works out better.

But if I were ever forced to use this silly idea I'd want my best ASM to work with the new guys. After all they have the future of the Troop in their hands. Having a new ex-den leader look after these guys? I don't think so.

Ea.