Is Wood Badge worth it?

[chaoman45]

What do you think? There's a squabble between two adults in our troop - one is the OA master (has a long history with OA and such) and has not taken Wood Badge. The other is Wood Badge trained (both 20th and 21st Century Wood badge, iirc) and attained the Vigil honour. Both can't agree on the value of Wood Badge. #1 says it's of no use for him since he's been in Scouting for so long and says OA teaches more leadership skills than Wood Badge could. #2 says he's never seen OA do anything, let alone demonstrate leadership skills and promotes Wood Badge.

 

I am currently Wood Badge trained (C-23-10) and am a Brotherhood. I only saw WB as another training course, not a rite of passage. It did teach me some useful things and let me interact with other council Scouters. Don't really do much in OA, honestly. Whilst I don't view either one to be "worse" than the other, I feel that different people will get more/less out of each. Just depends on who they are I guess.

[blade1158]

The two gentlemen in question create a false dichotomy, Order of the Arrow OR Wood Badge. It's not either or, it's both and. Each is different, obviously, and created for different purposes. Participate in both, enjoy both.

 

Now, is Wood Badge worth it. Depends on where you are standing. A newer Scouter will probably get more from the course than a more seasoned one, but one will only take from the experience what one wants. I just took the course in the spring. While I didn't get much from the course material, I did enjoy the time with my patrol and the staff was truly outstanding, there for all the right reasons, they were inspiring. So for me, when my ticket is completed, I think it will be worth it.

[SeattlePioneer]

I took Wood Badge in 1985. With 25 years perspective...

 

 

Mostly Wood Badge gave me a deeper sense of "working my ticket" over a life time.

 

There's some evidence that idea has been effective, since I'm Cubmaster/Unit Commissioner/Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner/District Membership Chair and such.

 

Over the decades I've honed and improved my leadership skills, but that's mainly the effect of experience with various jobs and responsibilities, not leadership skills taught by Wood Badge.

 

Frankly, I've never considered taking the new Wood Badge course. Taking it would require me to quit doing some other Scouting task to make time, which would be counter productive to Scouting in my view.

 

So frankly, I wouldn't pressure an experienced Scouter to take Wood Badge unless he wants to do it. He's already working his ticket, and presumably has been doing so for many years already. He's already learned the most important thing Wood Badge has to teach in my view.

 

(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[ScoutBox]

I took WB21C last year, beaded this past Spring, Staffed WB this month. I think that everyone has something to learn in the course. Sure there are always those who think they know it all. OK, not a problem. I don't think anyone should be pushed into taking the course, and maybe not everyone is cut out for the course. It does get very emotional and many have a hard time with that. I saw it on this past course with one almost quiting, and several crying during the ticket process. I find you get out of something what you put into it. If your not ready to put into it, then let it be. I just did my Ordeal into OA this month, and found it great. I went into it without doing any research, or asking questions, I kept my eyes, and ears open, and my mouth shut. Had a great time, and can't wait to bring more cheerful service to my unit. Also can't wait til Brotherhood. (Man that song is hard to learn?).. anyway, it doesn't sound very scout like when two adults argue about stuff like this. I would recommend they first stop that, and then remember why they are involved in scouting. I think that they could use some Forming, Storming, Norming and Preforming at the course.

[WAKWIB]

As blade said, there is a bit of trying to compare apples with watermelons going on between two adults. Sounds more like sibling squabbling than informed adult conversation, as well.

How can Mr.Woodbadge say he's never seen the OA do anything and somehow holds the Vigil Honor degree???? That's one of the oddest statements I've ever heard.

My two cents: I think that a good OA lodge offers a lot of leadership training and opportunities for youth. I have not taken the Wood Badge course. Back when I was a scout and young adult circa 1970's-1980's, WB was highly acclaimed in the Scouting community. I don't recall ever hearing a negative comment about it. It's "graduates" were looked up to and seemed to walk-the-talk. Currently, I have heard good things about it from folks I've talked to in person. On this forum is where I've heard mostly comments of luke-warm like, to utter distaste, with a few enthusiastic supporters.

[Basementdweller]

For a long time scouter NO.

 

For a cub parent or leader with no scouting sure.

 

 

I found it a complete waste of time. I took NYLT training as a youth and it was called Brown Sea.

 

I was not entertained by the stuffed animals and antics of the staff during the course. the hours standing at gillwell listening to both verse of the announcement song over and over again.

 

 

 

[BadenP]

chaoman

 

While I am not the biggest fan of WB21C compared to the old WB there are some definite things any scouter would be able to find useful in their scouting, such as organization and program planning methods, as well as great networking opportunities. Personally I have not seen very much in the way of leadership skills for adults in the OA, which is meant to be more a paternal service organization than anything else. WB is a lot of work however and takes a lot of committment which if an individual is not willing to commit to he should probably not bother taking the course

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

So were you a Curlew, Raven, Bull, or Wolf?

 

Eagle92

Cocky Curlew

Brownsea 22 1988, NOAC

[Basementdweller]

I took it in 1974 and we were beavers. One patrol, there were only 6 of us.

 

the SM kinda snookered me into it.......one of these deals, hey base, ya want to go to Brown Sea, the troop will pay for it and you like camping. huh yes Mr. Carter, I would love to.

 

I had a great time, really enjoyed my patrol.

[BDPT00]

If you sang the announcement song, then your staff didn't get it. I'd write 'em off.

What part of "A Scout is Courteous" don't they get? They're sending Cub leaders back to their units with that kind of crap? And to think they "learned it at Wood Badge."

I can assure you it didn't come out of the syllabus, and I'm sorry you had to endure it.

BDPT00

 

[Basementdweller]

I dreaded standing at that field....they took 15 minutes of crap and strung it out for an hour. Awarding and recognizing every member of the staff over and over again, giggling at inside jokes and antics. I took days off of work for this??????

 

 

Reflecting on this thread, I had been working my ticket prior to attending wood badge, as seattle pointed out. I already understood selflessness, giving, politics of working with adults and youth.

 

I am now irked as I find out the Tickets that got approved. Date night with the wife???? lose 10 pounds???? increase popcorn sales???? Attend roundtable???? Create annual troop calendar???? take the boys camping???? Go camping with the girl scouts?????? Attend a LNT workshop???? Help at district camporee????

 

We had one participant finish their ticket in just a couple of months????? Really????

 

My TG returned my ticket for a couple of items he said were too, easy and my ticket was supposed to take an entire year to complete. Well, It has been a year and I have one item left and it is in progress. My scrap book and documentation are all together except for the last item and I hope to meet with my ticket councilor between christmas and new years to get it signed off and arrange for my beading ceremony.

 

 

 

 

[BDPT00]

"I dreaded standing at that field....they took 15 minutes of crap and strung it out for an hour. Awarding and recognizing every member of the staff over and over again, giggling at inside jokes and antics."

*** Very sorry to hear that. Please don't judge all of Wood Badge by one lousy staff. Awarding and recognizing any member of the staff is out of line. Inside jokes are even worse. Your staff was rude, and didn't get it. That doesn't die easily. Find a way to make your comments heard at the region level. Your staff needs a complete makeover.

BDPT00

 

[CHLees3rd]

I am now irked as I find out the Tickets that got approved. Date night with the wife???? lose 10 pounds???? increase popcorn sales???? Attend roundtable???? Create annual troop calendar???? take the boys camping???? Go camping with the girl scouts?????? Attend a LNT workshop???? Help at district camporee???? - BasementDweller

 

Base, why do these ticket items irk you so much? Is it because they sound too easy to you? Without knowing what the Scouter's vision is, it is not really fair to judge his/her ticket items or compare them to your own items.

 

I know of a Scouter who had an item similar to the "date night with the wife." Without knowing the Scouter's vision, one might wonder why the heck this item was included. Well this Scouter's marriage was on the fence due to "too much Scouting" and he recognized it. His vision was to be more effective in his Scouting position (District Executive) and he knew he had to fix his marriage in order to be successful. I know that he and his Troop Guide discussed the item for a long time.

 

As for the other items you listed, I as a Troop Guide would approve them so long as they were in line with the Scouter's vision and challenging for the Scouter while also being attainable. Go camping with Girl Scouts could be a tactic to recruit for a Venturing Crew. Losing ten pounds for an extremely obese Scouter whose vision is to have a healthier troop is not out of line. Increase popcorn sales might be a great ticket for a Scouter whose troop wants to do take more trips but is not so good at raising funds. Attend roundtable and get others to attend roundtable might be a way for a Scouters to transition an adult-run troop into a youth-led troop. Create an annual troop calendar might be what a troop that rarely budgets and/or plans proper activities needs for a Scouter to turn around a troop. Take the boys camping may sound foolish to a Scouter whose Scouts go monthly, but there are troops that rarely camp, as crazy as it sounds. Attend a LNT workshop might be the first step for a Scouter to turn around a troop that has only trailer camped for the past thirty years. Helping at the district camporee might be a way for a Unit Commissioner to get his/her units to participate. Items need to be related to the vision.

 

Of course, if a Pack Committee Member had a vision to increase the number of volunteers in the pack and one of the items was "attend the national jamboree," then I would question the relevance it.

 

YiS,

Chazz Lees

[ScoutBox]

CHL, very good points, and each participant is different. I had one who was a 23 year old, Eagle Scout, and special need. He had a very good vision, and some interesting goals, I liked them but the SM didn't like them all. He wanted to push the guy a bit more, and even though the guy called home cried, and was upset, did write two more better goals, that pushed him more then a new cook book, etc.. in the end the Participant will get more from his ticket, work a bit harder, and give a bit more back to him Troop, District, and the council. BTW, the SM also has a Special needs child who is not only an Eagle Scout but has reached the highest level of Venturing, and is the Associate Lodge Chief. So the SM was right in pushing this one guy a bit harder. I went back and read my Vision, and Ticket, and saw where my ticket wasn't as hard as many, but was very important to getting my troop back on the Patrol method, and the boy lead approach, which now the troop is doing. Your ticket is never finished, and the work is never done. Some like this participant wanted very much to do specific goals, and I told then they still can work those goals, but not in the Ticket. . On thing I have had to re-learn in Scouting is Family first..so I understand a DE needing to work on his marriage..

 

[moosetracker]

Basement - Congradulations on seeing your tickets through!!! I know you came back from your WB experience so totally dis-illusioned (and with district people telling you, you would still be unwelcomed helping to organize district events after telling you that they would only allow you to help on district events if you took woodbadge.) you were unsure if you would do the tickets.. It is good you are seeing the tickets as something for you and to H_LL with them..

 

I would imagine if you had easier tickets to get to your vision, and were forced to make them harder, it would irk you that others got the easier tickets. Sometimes it is about looking at the person and what they are capable of.. Accepting smaller items from someone with little self confidence, and pushing someone who is already confident and capable.. It may be a compliment to your capabilities that you were pushed.. Then again it may just be your district staff being big smuccka-brains.