Being Trained, requirement confusion

[moosetracker]

Jay - Why should National revise the tour Plan?? They have it correct, you need Baloo Training.. Your Council and you have it wrong, you need to re-educate your whole council, and stop allowing Packs who are camping without BALOO training..

 

The IOLS & OWLS are similar and they are attempting to combine those. From what my Council Chair states, we are now behind a few other projects before it is rolled out, but it is slated to be combined.. (Don't know what caused them to retract the one about to be rolled out a year back and then rather then fix the problem, throw it to the bottom of the stack).

 

Anyway BALOO has some annoying parts to someone trained in IOLS like the campfire program camping equipment and cooking.. But there are differences too.. You are not organizing patrols.. You are organizing family camping, some families never having camped.. How to organize equipment since the Pack will not have family camping equipment for 50 families in their storage shed.. Rules, Rules, Rules because of the younger age group. Because it may also include siblings from infant on up to teenagers, info on how to keep everyone occupied..

 

IOLS / OWLS not so different.. A few things the Webs can't do.. BALOO has similarities but also enough differences to keep it a seprate course.. And you don't need to be the one who is BALOO trained.. I always suggest to get someone in your pack who has young scouts.. No good training the Webelos Leader if they are crossing over with their son to the troop next year.. And it could be a committee member who is fine with going on the Pack Campouts..

[Jay K]

Why should they update the tour plan? Same reason they nationalized the Health form. Look at the confusion in this thread, for some of which I myself am responsible.

 

All I'm talking about: "Baloo...*

* Note: IOLS may not be substituted for BALOO.

Which is illogical to me, but it could be done very simply that way. Simpler than whipping up a whole health form.

[Eagle92]

Jay,

 

I agree, you would think that if you had IOLS, then you wouldn't need BALOO. Only thing I learned new was how to tie some funky water bottle knot that was a extra for the heck of it thing the instructor taught during breaks.

 

Now Moose does bring up the rules, but if you are current with your G2SS, it's in there.

 

I think the worse part of my BALOO was that it was indoors. First thing I did when I was asked to do BALOO was fill out permit to use the local camp. GBB said it best: "ScOUTING IS OUTING!"

 

 

And that quote was me shouting at you guys!

[Jay K]

Did you see my post in "Wood Badge Horror Stories?" THAT was an outing training, the way it should be, in my (Can't claim humble) opinion.

[Eagle92]

In regards to your IOLS class that you did....

 

 

 

 

[Jay K]

Eagle92:

Thanks!

[Scoutfish]

Jay, you might want to see that your council updates it's training for it's staff.

 

"I've taken Webelos camping, and sucessfully floated my OLS in place of Baloo/Owls in our Council."

 

You do not have to have BALOO to take Webelos camping either. It's good to have, and won't hurt, but is not a requirement to take Webelos camping. All you have to have in training for your position.

[Jay K]

I'm going to take BALOO. I got Grandkids coming up. I've always heard that it is great fun. :~)

I'm just thinking about the Adults that cross over to Boy Scouts and say "What? I have to take MORE Outdoor training?" Or the ones like me that retread with younger boys in Cubs again and say "What? I'm an IOLS instructor! I have to take Baloo? REALLY?" I deal with dragging people through training. "Why would I waste a Saturday doing that? " It just doesn't make sense. Gosh, It's hard enough getting them to take Youth Protection online!

With OLS, Wood Badge, Camp School (twice) and Wilderness First Aid,(three times,) Trainer's E.D.G.E., University of Scouting, CPR (eight times) etc., I'm approaching $2000.00 spent on training. Why should I pay to take Baloo, other than I love Scouting, and I want to follow the rules, most of the time? :~)

I know that posting this won't change anything. but it's fun to air my views. Maybe Ill get every IOLS instructor I can find to attend BALOO with me!

[Eagle92]

One thing I like about IOLS: TEST OUT OPTION!

 

One thing I wish BALOO allowed: A test out option.

 

Now for old fogeys whoa re retreading, one thing I've seen is get them on staff to teach the course. We had a 3 beader who had not done IOLS as he got his beads as a CM. BUT he had an extensive outdoor background and was a MBC for a bunch of outdoor MBs. But he was "untrained" as an ASM and crew adviser. And with his involvement in scouting: Troop, Pack, OA, WB Staff, and District, he didn't have time to do IOLS. So how did he finally go through IOLS, and this was before we knew about the test out option I might add? He taught an IOLS course.

[Tampa Turtle]

I think BALOO is valuable apart from IOLS in that there are things you probably do not do with cubbies and vice versa.

[Jay K]

Of course, that's the sales angle. We shall see. I am truly skeptical about that.

[Eagle92]

Tampa,

 

Maybe it was just my class, but again I did not learn anything new in BALOO, except a knot for making a waterbottle carrier. And the knot was something to do during breaks and was extra.

[Jay K]

Go,Eagle92.

It's like saying CPR for the professional Rescuer (>$100, all day ) won't count for the CPR requirement because it isn't "basic CPR" OR I can't serve as a Lifeguard (I can,) becuse I'm an Aquatics Director. I'll take Baloo, no Huhu. It just isn't logical to me.

Oh, and they probably won't teach the water bottle knot at "my" course.

[Jay K]

...Or my friend Steve can't fly an ultralight becuase he flies a 747 back and forth between Minneapolis and Hong Kong. Or My Mom can't take people canoeing becuse she has a CG captain's ("6-pack")rating.

Or my son can't drive a car because he has a CDL with a Hazmat certificate. OR my Doctor can't list MD in place of WFA.

Not logical. But, I'll take the Baloo course.

[Eagle92]

Jay,

 

 

Actually I don't think an MD will count for WFA for the BSA, and nothing in the lit search I did, a quick search but one on the Philmont site, on says either way.

 

But in talking to a few first responders, they basically said that MDs are not the greatest to have around in an emergency, except possibly Emergency Medicine physicians with EMT expereince. Their complaint is that the MDs are use to doing things one way, with all the nice tech they have in their offices or in the hospital, and that they cannot adapt fast enough to field situations.