Being Trained, requirement confusion

[kari_cardi]

I've been trying to follow our council guidelines over the past few months on required training. I'd like to have my groups fully trained and compliant. What I read and what I am told often do not agree, so I thought I would try asking here as well. I suspect I'm not the only one confused. And if there is an online resource that is the ultimate authority that you can refer me to, I would be ever so grateful.

 

1. This is Scouting is required for new scouters, but not for scouters who have taken it before. Correct?

 

2. Do scouters need to take Fast Start training for their position as well as leader-specific training?

 

3. Webelos leaders need WEBLOT and IOLS doesn't work instead, correct? It seems that it does in some councils. Do Webelos leaders also need BALOO to take their den camping? Can the pack go camping if we have IOLS and WEBLOT trained leaders but not BALOO?

 

TIA for your help!

 

[UCEagle72]

(1) "This is Scouting" is required for all unit leaders that did not complete "New Leader Essentials"

(2) Yes. "Fast Start" training is designed to be the training before you ever start to work in your new position.

(3) This depends on your Council Training Committee. Here, a Webelos leader could do WOLT or IOLS -- but like i said, that all depends on your Council.

 

[Eagle92]

Let me see if I can help and not confuse you anymore

 

1)This is Scouting is required for new scouters. If you have taken an older version, you are ok. BUT there is a caveat 1 at the end.

 

2) I am cutting and pasting the PDF information for different positions from national. There is a Caveats 2 and 3 at the end

 

CUB SCOUT

Fast Start (OLC)

Youth Protection* (OLC)

Leader Specific, by position (OLC)

This Is Scouting (OLC)

 

BOY SCOUT/VARSITY SCOUT

Fast Start (OLC)

Youth Protection* (OLC)

Leader Specific or Troop Committee

Challenge (by position)

This Is Scouting (OLC)

Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills***

 

VENTURING/SEA SCOUT

Fast Start (OLC)

Youth Protection* (OLC)

Leader Specific (by position)

This Is Scouting (OLC)

Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills**

 

3) National does not require WeLOT, but see Caveat 2 Below.

 

Caveat 1: You need to make sure that the dates you took your older training and the dates the course was available coincide in SCOUTNET. I know that a few years ago, some of the training courses were not listed in SCOUTNET, and to solve the matter, my DE said A) use the new training code, but put in the correct date, and B) if anyone staffs a training course, put them in as a participant as well to make sure SCOUTNET records them. Solution A probably caused the problem we are seeing now in hwich trained people, who updated their records before older course codes were developed and hence use the new codes with the old dates, are not considered trained.

 

Caveat 2 Councils can make some courses required, i.e WeLOT. Also some Councils will also give you credit for WeLOT if you can show you have IOLS, since the two courses are so similar, some folks have created a combined course, and national was in the process of combining the two courses. You will need to talk tot he district or council training chair for clarification.

 

Caveat 3: A few months back, it was reported that those folks taking Venturing Youth Protection Y03 were not showing up as "Trained" in SCOUTNET as it was only programmed to accept Youth Protection Training Y01. So in order for SCOUTNET to A) register you as a leader at recharter, and B) Show that you were trained, you had to take both YP and VYP.

 

Good link to keep up with stuff is http://scouting.org/training/adult.aspx

 

good luck.

[kari_cardi]

Thanks to both of you! I think one of my problems is the differences between council and National. Any thoughts on whether WELOT/IOLS and BALOO are needed for Webelos leaders to go camping?

 

 

(This message has been edited by sasha)

[ScoutNut]

From the BSA National Web site -

 

http://scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/What_makes_a_trained_leader.pdf

 

1) The Basic Training Requirements, of which This Is Scouting is one, are considered to be one and done, and do not need to be repeated.

 

2) Fast Start is one of the Basic Training Requirements. There are different Fast Start trainings for different BSA levels and positions. Both Fast Start and Leader Specific, for your specific position, must be done when ever you change, or add, a leader position.

 

3) BALOO is REQUIRED by BSA National to take a PACK on an overnight camping trip. Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders is a SUPPLEMENTAL course, and, while it is highly encouraged, it is NOT REQUIRED by BSA National for anything. IOLS is a Boy Scout level course and is not usable for Cub Scout camping.

 

Individual councils can not REDUCE the kinds/amount of training required by BSA National. However they can INCREASE it, and some do.

 

Some councils combine their IOLS and their Webelos Leader Outdoor into one course with breakout sessions for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. This is fine as Cubs and Boys have different safety policies, and camp very differently. In this case a Webelos leader would take the training with Cub breakouts for Webelos, and then retake the training as a Boy Scout SM/ASM with the Boy Scout breakouts.

 

Some councils combine their IOLS and their Webelos Outdoor into one course, which is basically/mostly just IOLS and give credit for completion at both the Cub Scout and Boy Scout levels. I'm not a fan of this but some councils do it.

 

The outdoor training REQUIRED to take a Webelos Cub Scout den camping varies by council.

 

Some councils do not require their Webelos den leaders to have taken any outdoor training at all to be able to take their den camping.

 

Some councils require their Webelos den leaders to have taken either BALOO, Webelos Outdoor, or IOLS.

 

Some councils require their Webelos den leaders to take some combination of the outdoor training.

 

I hope this helps!

[Eagle92]

Officially I'll say check with your district/council person on the topic.

 

Me personally I'd recommend either WeLot or IOLS. BALOO is just the very basics, and the other two courses are more advanced and cover nearly the same topics. Again personally I'd say IOLS over WeLOT or see if your council is one of those that combines the two.

[kari_cardi]

Now I am confused again. Sort of. Eagle92, I have asked. I'm still asking. I thought maybe different viewpoints would help me.

[ScoutNut]

>>"Any thoughts on whether WELOT/IOLS and BALOO are needed for Webelos leaders to go camping?">"I have asked. I'm still asking. I thought maybe different viewpoints would help me."

[kari_cardi]

Thanks, ScoutNut. I understand your point, but I am not getting definitive answers from council. And yes, I am talking to the right people.

[ScoutNut]

Well, if your council folks don't know what they would, and would not approve, on a Tour Plan for a Webelos den campout (sad), then you have to assume they will go by the National requirements of no outdoor training required.

 

That is, at least, until they decide to turn down your Tour Plan.

 

However, on the bright side, then you will have your definitive answer (until they get someone new to approve Tour Plans!).

[eisely]

It is my understanding that the WEBLOT syllabus has been withdrawn by national. We are no longer offering that course. We still offer BALOO which is heavily subscribed.

[Eagle92]

Eisley,

 

Last I heard, National wasn't combining IOLS and WeLOT. I know in 2009 they said they were going to combine them, but last year they said they were not. And the training newsletter that's suppose to come out every month from national hasn't been updated since March 2011.

[SSScout]

In our District, Web leaders are encouraged to take IOLS independently. Welot is not offered.

[acco40]

Are you asking what requirements/courses are needed to become trained? Or, are you asking what training is required to be a Scouter? These are two different questions.

 

Keeping the discussion focused on Cub Scouts, Youth Protection, This is Scouting and Leader Specific training is all required to be considered trained for your position. All of this training can be taken on-line although the preferred method is with a living, breathing trainer.

 

Basic supplemental training includes Fast Start, BALOO, Outdoor Skills for Webelos Leaders and other courses.

 

Trained leaders in youth protection and BALOO are required to get tour plan approval.

[kari_cardi]

Thanks acco40, I've got it sorted out. What I needed was what training to tell my leaders so they meet all the various requirements. They don't really care about the differences between trained to be on charter versus trained to wear the trained strip versus national requirements versus council requirements versus tour plan requirements...They just want to know what to do so they can move on and work with the boys. I didn't realize that there were so many different standards, myself. Now I do. It doesn't make sense to me, I think the whole 'Trained' issue could be vastly simplified, but that isn't BSA!