Adult Scout Leader Training Question.

[BigEagle38]

Does anyone know whether or not the "old" Scoutmastership Fundamentals and Boy Scout Leader training courses are grandfathered when it comes to the current required training for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters? I am led to believe that it is not and current leaders who took those courses MUST take This Is Scouting, Scoutmaster Specifics, and IOLS. I have either missed where this is a requirement or misunderstood what I have read. Thanks.

 

[ScoutNut]

Who is leading you to believe this, and where, specifically, are they getting their information from?

 

According to the BSA National Web site basic training, like Scoutmaster Fundamentals, does NOT expire. BSA encourages leaders to stay up to date on training of all sorts, even those that do not expire, however it is not required.

 

BSA Spring 2011 Training Updates -

 

http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx

 

Your problem could be that, for a variety of reasons, your basic training is not showing up on ScoutNet. You can check what training of yours is in the BSA system by registering on MyScouting, on the BSA National site -

 

http://myscouting.scouting.org/

 

And then checking under "Training Validation".

 

[moosetracker]

I was told something else and the Trained/untrained reports you get from Council seemed to agree with this assessment..

 

I would have people who would be in two units say - Boy Scouts & Venture or Cub Scouts & Boy Scouts.. In one unit, New Leaders Essentials was honored as valid, while in the other it listed them as needing This is Scouting.. So I asked why..

 

I was told the Grandfather clause is good for as long as you are in your position. If after the course changes, you change your position then you are no longer grandfathered, and need to take the newer courses..

 

So if you have been in the same position for the past 10 years, never moved for ASM to SM after the courses changed, or from one unit to another.. You should be good.. But if you moved and had to do a new adult App for a new position, I fear that you are not.

 

But, I agree with ScoutNut, if the wording was in place for Scoutmastership Fundamentals that is for the new Intro to outdoor leader training, it is a rip off if they pull the Grandfather unless you change positions.. Because it truely is worded that it "Adults who have taken Intro to outdoor leader skills will not have to repeat the skills".. (of course that wording is subject to interpretation, and I do not know if there was something similar for Fundamentals)..

[Eagle92]

Moose,

 

You are joking right?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?! I knew SCOUTNET was messed up when it took 3 months to print out council labels when it first came out in '98 (I kid you not 3 months to get labels printed out b/c it was a SNAFU)

 

So let me get this straight. Even though I have been active, kept abreast of changes, etc, If I move up to a troop or a crew, heck even ACM for that matter, then NONE of my previous training counts and I have to start all over?!?! Who is the genius that came up with that?

[Eagle92]

Ok I've calmed down a little. Using these two sites

 

http://scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/TrainingCoursesReport2011.pdf

 

and this site going to the right and selecting "Making Your Training Records Stick! Slideshow" It looks like there is a resource within SCOUTNET that tells you what older courses count towards being trained, so it may be a matter of getting the correct course number with the correct dates.

 

I know why this mess exists and wish the solution was implemented earlier. I remember when I was training chair and older training codes were NOT listed, and we had only 5 "trained" leaders in the district, and the PTC staffer, several trainers, and some WB folks were not the 5 trained leaders. So I was told to enter the codes that the older courses replaced, but put the original dates.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

heck no, you don't have to take the training over, just present the training cards you get at every session and you are golden

[moosetracker]

Eagle92 - I hope I am not. But that is what the Training Report does, and so when I asked the council Registrar why, and he gave me that explanation it made sense of the report, but I don't like tha answer I got..

 

So I send the info out once a year by email to all the units on who in their units are trained or not, and have them log any missing trainings on a form to the registrar.. What happens to the people with the older trainings is ironed out between them. I stay out of it..

[Papadaddy]

Ahhh...training cards. Now where did I put those 22 years ago?

[UCEagle72]

You mean Cornerstone doesn't count!?!!

 

Sorry - just had to laugh - that was the first "training program" I took as an ASM back in 1976 ... I remember the cassette tapes and workbooks well.

 

[hadulzo]

I get a kick out of you guys that a resistent to participate in training. Learning is an ongoing thing. It is not required to retake the course but it is fun and I always learn something new from course materials or participants and most of all meet new friends. I have take outdoor training 3 times and have also been an instructor many times.

You could continue to hide with your unit or volunteer to help with a training course and get an new training card.

 

If you claim to be trained because you took a training course 22 years ago you are deceiving yourself. Policeman, fireman, baseball players are always training why are scout leaders any different?

 

 

[Oak Tree]

Policeman, fireman, baseball players are always training why are scout leaders any different?

 

There are professionals and there are volunteers. There are those who are being paid for their time and those who are paying to participate.

 

Do you think baseball players go back and take a course that reviews the rules of baseball - how many strikes, how many balls, how many outs? They would take advanced training appropriate for their level.

 

Your attitude is right - you may as well enjoy it, but a lot of adult leaders are looking at their investment in Scouting and saying that they can spend their time working on X (coaching Scouts, working with new Scouts, counseling a merit badge, fixing troop equipment, etc) or they can sit in training. It's not like we have infinite time and adding required training is free - there's an opportunity cost.

[JoeBob]

The only thing new I've learned from Scouter training is how to fill out BSA paperwork.

 

Of course I'm going to have to take woodbadge before anyone will believe me when I point out how boring and repetitive BSA training has become.

[Eagle92]

Had,

 

I have no problem with training and encourage folks to take refreshers if they feel like it.

 

But when you are STAFFING the trainings, and the trained leader report doesn't list you as trained, that's where I have problems. And a bunch of my trainers had problems with that too, esp. the PTC staffer who was "untrained."

[TAHAWK]

As suggested, the problem is often the "listed" business.

 

I found out that my official record says I took basic training in 1910, took all Commissioner's training, and was the District Chairman of another district - for many years. Except for the 1910 part (Just kidding!), that is all incorrect.

 

The official record also omits everything between 1910 and 1998 and most of the stuff after 1998.

 

Not truly impressive in an organization that is now making a great business about requiring training.

 

I am moving to a new unit closer to my home and in another council. I have been told I do not ("hardly") need to take basic training. I will be in the same position, SA.

 

I would hate to retake the current Scoutmaster Specific unit. It's bad enough to repeatedly teach it. 0___0