Trained Leader and Outdoor Training

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters and Trainers,

 

Greetings!

 

 

Please help me with this.

 

I am a seasoned Scouter and a long time Council and District Trainer and Training Chair. I was asked this question a few weeks ago. First let me set the background, then I will pose the question(s). As a District Trainer, I have developed the stance that I cannot control Scouters. (Similar to you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink). I can offer training throughout the year. I can advertise, encourage, etc; but I cannot get them from their home or work, and set them in the learner seat at the training event. So this post is less about required training, more about recent standards in outdoor events.

 

 

Now for the background. During planning for a recent unit event; the Scoutmaster and our normal crew of experienced Assistant Scoutmasters just were not able to obtain the time to make a specific weekend outdoor event. We did have a few new committee members and a couple of new ASMs, which are parents of the younger boys that could obtain the time for this event. I have no doubt about their basic competency or leadership of these recent troop parents. I do Most all were committee members and den leaders 6 months to 2 years ago in Cub Scouting.

 

All of them had YPT, but that was about it. Another Assistant Scoutmaster asked, if they needed the entire focus of SM/ASM training; YPT, Fast Start, NLE or TIS, SM/ASM Specs, and IOLS; in order to be the adults on a troop outdoor event. It had been years since we did not have fully trained team of SM/ASM on campouts. But for this upcoming event, we had new ASMs and Committee that had basic YPT. So I replied "let me check".

 

I went to the recent (Feb 2011) edition of the G2SS, and also the newest Tour Plan form. I looked at "What Makes a Trained Leader" pdf file on Scouting.org. I'll admit, I did not go digging thru my older versions of G2SS nor the older tour permits. I did not go back and review the recharter requirements, but I believe recharter training is at the least focused on satisfying YPT.

 

Now for a trained adult leader to earn and wear the trained strip and to satisfy the quality requirements for Journey to Excellence, a SM/ASM requires the YPT, Fast Start, NLE or TIS, SM/ASM Specs, and IOLS. Of course I certainly support and believe in these standards.

 

What did I find in my reading of the G2SS and new Tour Plan. For an outdoor event, certain supplemental/advanced training is required, but Specifics and IOLS are not.

 

Obviously, you want Specifics and IOLS to deliver a safe outdoor educational program to the Scouts. But for a unit (like mine) where 6-7 of our trained experienced leadership just not make this trip, but 6-7 of our newest ASM/Committee members could attend, what was the minimum training required.

 

It looked like our newest members needed, YPT, Weather Hazards, and for this event, Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat and an experienced/skilled canoeing instructor (parent or contract guide). I could not find that they needed IOLS, which the other ASM and I could have sworn was on older versions of the tour permits. Cub Scout Leaders do need BALOO on the Tour Plan, but I did not see IOLS for Boy Scout Leaders.

 

So after all that background, here are my questions to the forum, to make sure I am valid.

 

A "What makes a Trained Leader" fully trained SM/ASM requires, either YPT, SMF I, II, III or YPT, FS, NLE/TIS, Specifics, IOLS. Correct?

 

But the minimum training for G2SS and a Tour Plan to take Scouts out on a campout & aquatics trips requires; YPT, Weather Hazards, SSD, SA, and aquatics experience. No need for IOLS. Is this correct?

 

Is IOLS required for campouts anymore? I do not see it in the current versions of G2SS.

 

As a Scouter and Trainer. I know some Troops will aim high, and obtain all the quality distinctions they may, JTE unit, 100 Day Campers, 50 miler, etc, etc. Other Troops are just happy to be there, and will aim just for the minimum sustaining accomplishments. As a trainer, it will become more increasing difficult to host Outdoor Leadership Skills; if it required for the fully trained title, but not required for recharter or outdoor events/tour plans.

 

So, did I misread the recent G2SS and Tour Plans. My bottom line question. Is IOLS required to conduct an outdoor event? or is it not required?

 

Thanks in advanced!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

[moosetracker]

No, you did not mis-read anything. That is why many SM & ASM's are going on 5 - 10 -20 years in these positions, never bothering to take the course, because they figured Training requirements where more like "Training recommendations"..

 

I know the requirement to have it for outings has not been in place for at least 7 years. That is around the time our troop made it's own training policy, that to go on outings, you need to have YPT, This is Scouting & Fast Start.. Then they had a year to get the other training and could go on outings but would be cut off from attending any future events if within a years time they did not bother to do the training.

 

It may be required that one (1) person needs BALOO to take a whole pack camping, but OWLS is not required for a Webeloes den outing, and is not in the mandated training when it rolls out either.

 

Also although every registered adult needs YPT.. only one adult leader of the group needs to have the other things, and that can be split with one person having Hazardous whether and another one person have safe swimm etc.. as long as someone in the group has all the supplemental training to satisfy the Tour Plan.

 

No it is just the enforced mandated training they are rolling out that has requirements for IOLS & SM/ASM Specifics.. If the outing goes without any of the trained SM/ASM's and no one has the training.. No problem..

 

Kind of strange, but when has National ever made sense?

[SMEagle819]

Here is my "interpretation" (uh-oh, someone interpreting the forms for their own good) of the Tour Plan:

 

1. Only need 1 registered leader present at all times that has YPT training; this means you could have 1 trained leader, and a few parents who are not registered go on your trip. However, a parent can take YPT and not be registered as well.

 

2. Only need 1 person on the trip with the Weather training. Looking right at the form, it does not state "registered leader" for this training. Again, a parent who is not registered can take this.

 

3. Only have to be trained in Safe Swim/Safety Afloat if you are doing those activities on your trip.

 

I will give you an example: we just went on a short hiking trip with 16 scouts. However, only 3 adults could go; 2 parents, and me, trained SM. To the letter of the plan, we were covered because there was one registered adult with YPT and weather training, along with 2 other adults. The 2 parents do have scout volunteer experience; 1 was a CM until his youngest boy moved up in February, and the other parent was an ASM at his son's previous troop, but his job (due to travel) is unable to be a "full time" ASM with us. Both of these parents are not registered with the troop, but have some scouting experience. This is slightly differnet than your situation, but is sounds like your adult that went on your trip are registered with your troop. In my "interpretation" of the form, one does not need to have IOLS in order to be the leader or go on a trip with the Boy Scouts.

[fred8033]

"Only need 1 registered leader present at all times that has YPT training"

 

Not to nit pick but .... where did you find "present at all times"? Camping groups are often split between different activities and locations. While I absolutely fully support your statement, I don't see any such rule in BSA. An applicable example is that two adults are required for any camp out, at least once registered and one parent. One must be YPT trained. Whoops, we didn't realize the waffle mix required eggs. There's a gas station 1/2 mile away. There's nothing that says the leader can't go get the eggs. No different than the leader visiting a ranger station, a shower facility or taking an afternoon hike. It's a judgement call, but I don't see anything saying "present at all times".