Troop Equipment Ownership Question

[Morasch]

Who owns Troop equipment - the troop, or the chartered organization?

 

This question has come up as my troop is in a situation where both the Troop and a seperately chartered Venture Crew (NOT a Venture Patrol) are both chartered by the SAME chartered organization.

The troop is very strong, and has had many successful fundraisers, enabling the troop to purchase both a trailer and top notch camping gear. The Venture Crew has had very little fundraisers, and has hardly any equipment of it's own.

 

Up to recently, the Troop has allowed the Venture Crew to borrow it's gear for the Venture Crews activities. Unfortunately, damage has occured with no repairs or compensation paid to the troop. Therefore, the Troop Committee voted to NOT allow use of it's equipment to any other unit (which includes of course, the Venture Crew).

 

Two *stories* have been heard.

1.) That the Troop retains ownership and clear title to all equipment it purchases, unless it fails to recharter. If that occurs, ownership reverts to either the chartered organization, or local Council.

2.) The troop does not own anything. The chartered organization retains title to everything, as in effect, they "own" the units they charter. So therefore, the chartered organization owns the equipment, and since the Venture Crew is charted by the SAME orgnization as the Troop in my case, they can petition and demand from the Chartered Organization the use of the Troop equipment.

 

In addition, if the Chartered Organization say, wanted to go camping (such as a church youth group), that they could demand use of "their" equipment for that non-Troop activity.

 

The bottom line - who owns Troop equipment, and which one of the two above answers is correct? Or is there another answer??

 

FYI - Our Council District Exec. didn't know the answer. He is now checking with National, but I have no idea how long it will take to get a response! This forum might be quicker, I hope!

[shemgren]

Rules and Regulations of the BSA, Article XI, Section 1, Clause 2, Paragragh (b), "In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the unit committee shall apply the unit funds and equipment to the payment of unit obligationsand shall turn the surplus, if any, to the local council....In the case of a charter orgranization, any funds or equipment which may be have been secured as property of the unit shall be held in trust by the chartering organization or the chartered local council, as may be agreed upon ..."

 

Other than the aboved named circumstances, the unit retains contol and ownership of its property.

[eisely]

I had always understood that the troop is not a legal entity, and therefore cannot own anything. However, not owning and not controlling the use of property are not the same thing.

 

This business about funds reverting to the council is a new one on me. If the chartered organization is supposed to own everything, one would think that the funds, upon dissolution, would revert to the CO.

 

Be all that as it may, it seems to me that the two committees ought to talk to one another about this. Leaving it up to the CO to decide who gets to use what is a good way to turn the CO off on scouting and lose everything.

[OldGreyEagle]

It is my undestanding the CO owns the equipment and the troop cannot dictate who can or cannot use it. That being said, I think the COR and the Venture Advisor and Scoutmaster need a face to face to go over what is involved when equipment is used.

 

We had a similar situation with the Venture Crew and Troop chartered from the same CO. The Troop (scouts) didnt "like" the crew using "their" stuff. But our COR and Scoutmaster researched it and said it was technically the CO's property. However, when the Venture Crew used the equipment, the Crew made sure the stuff was returned in better shape then it was when we received it. Leaving things better than you found them goes for "stuff" as well as a campground.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[nldscout]

This has been beat around and around and you will find no straight answer to your question. The area is as grey as can be. One opinion is the CO owns it and your money in your account, but no one in our charter has access to our troop bank accounts.

 

Our trailers and Canoe's are registered to our troop, not the CO. So our answer is its owned by the Troop, not the CO. Everyone points to the Clause in the Bylaws that says what happens if a unit is disolved, but there is nothing in the Bylaws about ownership of equipment of a functioning unit, just a lot of opinions.

 

But then again this is our opinion.

[eisely]

nldscout,

 

Are you sure your trailers are registered to the unit?

[nldscout]

The title and registration is made out to BSA TROOP 21, From DMV state of New york. 1 cargo trailer, 4 campers, 2 canoe trailers, 12 canoes.

 

All are registered to Troop, no where does it say Methodist Church on it who is our sponsor.

[eisely]

Interesting and surprising.

[Eagle Foot]

We had a situation where we wanted to move the troop to a different "Chartering Organization"...question was "Could we keep the equipment or did it have to stay"

 

I had heard all of the different "Policies" that everyone was quoting. When I went to national, it was explained to me as...If you move the troop the "Charting Organization" will have to do one of two things first. Either fill out the paper work to release the troop and its unit number or keep the troop (unit number)and the members can re-charter with another organization.

 

In either case the the equipment bought via funds raised or funds donated, or equipement donated on behalf of the Boy Scouts becomes the property of the "Charting Organization". If the "Charting Organization" decides to keep or release the equipment it is soly up to the "Charting Organization" and it does not automatically go to the council or back to others if the troop desolves.

 

If any member of the troop takes the equipment to another troop or just takes equipment away without permission it is considered "Thef by Taking" if two or more units are under the same "Charting Organization" any equipement is the property of the "Charting Oranization".

 

Be this so...the equipment rights are not any one specfic units but the "Charting Organizations" the equipment or property is allowed to be used by the unit or units. It is to the best interest of either unit to remember what the "Aims of Scouting" are and to follow the scout oath and law...this must not be forgot.

 

Scoutmaster, Crew Advisor, Cubmaster, and the COR all must come to agreement. If the "Chartering Organization" says Ventures can use the equipment...so be it. If you can't work out damage problems then someone is not following the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Good scouts will work this out, good scouts will look after each other, so will good leadership.

 

The committe can vote all day long, but if the "Charting Organization" dicides to differ as I understand they can then their decision is finial.

 

"Traind Leaders" have a better chance than un-trained leaders in working these things out. I'll stop...with this...is everything the units do and how they solve their problems to the best interest of the scouts?

 

Edited by Eagle Foot

 

 

 

[imascouter]

On December 5th, Shemgrem posted:

"Rules and Regulations of the BSA, Article XI, Section 1, Clause 2, Paragragh (b), "In the event of the dissolution of a unit....."

which states that leftover equipment goes to the council. My understanding was that leftovers would be property of the CO.

 

How can I obtain a copy of the publication that was quoted from, or is it available online?

 

Thanks!

[Morasch]

The document is called: "Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America", #57-492.

 

There is another seperate document called; "Charter and Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America", #57-491.

 

I have never seen these posted on the Internet.

 

I got my copies from the local Council Executive for free.

You can also purchase these direct from National (they are no longer available from Supply Division).

Copies are $1.50 each, including shipping & handling.

Mail your request & paymet to: Boy Scouts of America, Mail/Purchasing S10, P.O. Box 152079, Irving, TX 75015-2079

Make check payable to "Boy Scouts of America Account 79005-0260".

[nldscout]

Eaglefoot,

 

Who at national did you speak to? When we asked our CE about this we got the same wishy washy answers that everyone has gotten, There is nothing hard and fast that talks about it in R&R or bylaws. Like everything else with national, GREY is better, that way they can shift opinions with the time of month they are asked

[k9gold-scout]

Our troop has moved many times over the years, we have always been able to take our equipment and our troop # with us. This has been under a agreenent with the CO and council. My advice is "work it out" scouts are more important than equipment!

[scomman]

To quoute from a guide book for Salvation Army Boy Scout Troops.

Any propertry acquired by the Scout Unit is considered by the Boy Scouts Of America to be the property of the Salvation Army and in the event that the unit ceases to exist shall be supplied by the salvation army to other Scout Purposes. From what I understand talking to Scouters from other national Scouting Associations this is true of most if not all National Scouting Associations.

 

As for the troop number that is also the property of the CO and cannot and should not be allowed to go to another CO. We had this situation recently here in the council area where I live and the ruling was this. The troop number and equipment are owned by the CO and can be used as they see fit. If the unit moves and wants to take the number with them it doesn't happen neither are they allowed to take nay equipment other than personal property.

[k9gold-scout]

Yes, if the CO wants the used scout equipment and they want to save the # for another future troop, they can. However if they have no use for the equipment and as if we were told " if you leave it here we will just put it in the trash" it seems to be OK to take it. The same was true about our unit #.