Training in the J2E

[moosetracker]

Ok.. # 4 in the Journey to Excellence for Troop.. Probably same under the CS & Crew but maybe a different number..

 

Objective -

Trained leadership: Have a trained and engaged troop committee.

 

Bronze -

Have a Scoutmaster, an assistant Scoutmaster, and a committee with at least three members. The entire committee has completed This Is Scouting, Fast Start training, and Youth Protection training or, if new leaders, within three months of joining

 

Silver -

Bronze level, plus all must have completed Leader-Specific Training or, if new leaders, within six months of joining.

 

Gold -

Silver level, plus hold youth officer elections and installation before November 15.

 

 

Ok skip the Gold.. That is like something not related..

 

But the training.. This is all geared to committee training, correct?? Although SM & ASM is mentioned in a fly-by on the Bronze, they are not being asked to be trained, just to have someone registered for this position..

 

There is nothing in J2E about the SM or ASM training correct??

 

Just asking because, I am hosting an IOLS, some people are telling me they need the IOLS (& OWLS) this year for J2E.. I don't see it as part of the J2E at all, because the training is only looking at Committee training.. Before I blast this out to the whole district in an email listing the trainings and clearing up some of the confusion as to what you need & when you need it, I am double checking with you guys..

 

While we are at it .. I am correct that OWLS at this time is recommended to Webelos Den Leaders, but not Required, at this time.. I am pretty sure this was already discussed before, and it is just recommended (although some councils have made it a requirement.).. We have some confusion with this too, because our Jamboree is requiring it of the Webelos dens that camp over.. Which is their right as an Event to require, but it through up the who arguement of it not being something required.. Well an event requiring it and National requiring it are two different things.. Both are within their rights.. Tell me if my take on this is wrong..

 

Just double checking before I blast something in writing that is not correct.

[shortridge]

The Silver level does mention Leader-Specific Training for "all." So the SM and ASM must be trained as well for their positions - not just committee training.

[moosetracker]

OK.. So All at this point means All in the troup.. Because the Objective is a trained & engaged troop Committee. So I read All as pertaining to the overall objective..

 

But then again.. You see Specific Training as the full training for your specific position..

 

So really the overall objective is totally misleading, because the object should more read..

 

Trained Leadership: Have everyone in your unit fully trained for thier positions.

 

 

Also I guess I looked at Specific training as just the Specific training.. Committee Specific training, Cub leader Specific training, SM & ASM Specific training..

 

If you changed the objective, then the Gold level for youth officers would make more sense. But not really, because for a training objective this should be to conduct TLT training within your unit. Which I think is in the J2E, but not under the training objective.

[pchadbo]

I agree with shortridge . . ."plus all must have completed Leader-Specific Training" seems to cover ALL training,

 

 

and on a slight thread hijack and vent. . .got our numbers for recruiting for the JTE goals at roundtable last night, and have already accepted the fact that we will be missing those goals. We have 35 boys currently registered after a large crossover and some attrition. Our goal for gold level JTE recruiting is 31 boys. REALLY!?!? doubling the size of the pack is an acceptable goal?!?

 

thanks you for letting me vent

/end hijack/

[moosetracker]

pchadbo - don't worry too much, do the best you can.. As far as recruiting and FOS goes, they always try to increase the numbers.. You can't always and forever go up, there is a breaking point, where it must crash down, regroup, realign.. Then the following year you have a chance to make the numbers again based on what you crashed to..

 

Unfortunately your re-aligning of the number of youth in your organization happened on the first year of the J2E..

 

Our DE was complaining about the same thing happening on the FOS side.. Some of our units have been given impossible goals and can't make it because those who were the big contributions, just crossed-over in mass.. He doesn't agree with the way he has to dole out the percentages, but he is just following orders, rather then what makes logical sense..

 

Every now and then you have to accept you will take the hit for a year or two, go under, then come back up the following year when they re-align your goals to something more obtainable.. At least it is not all or nothing.. Pass or Fail.. Try for the Bronze, if you look hard enough you may be able to make Silver based on other items you do have control over..

 

Knowing you, you will have that unit improving in lots of ways when you become CC.. As the unit's program improves the youth will naturally join, and stay involved.. It will work out over time.

 

pchadbo & I are in the same district.. So that is why we got off subject..

 

On subject.. pchadbo - you were most likely at the pack breakout, I got one email this morning.. Can you shed more light on the confusion you guys had as to who needs BALOO, OWLS & IOLS?? What is required, by whom, and for what it is needed for?

 

The more insight the more I can better word the email Blast..

[Adam S]

@Moosetracker

You are correct National does not require Outdoor Webelos Leader Skills for normal Pack Operations.

 

It is a requirement of the Webelos Den Leader Training Award.

 

It is a requirement for the Pack Journey to Excellance Gold Level.

 

As to a counci requiring it, I know our council required Youth Protection in person for the first time until last year because NJ has very strict Child Abuse laws and they felt it was best conveyed in person. That stopped when National asked them to do so, this ocurred right when national updated all the online training last year. So it seems they can hold units to a higher stanadard, until National further clarifies their position.

 

 

 

[ctbailey]

Moose - it is sort of a moot point that the JTE doesn't get too specific about SM and ASM, because all direct contact leadership shall be "trained" for their positions or else they will not be included on the charter as of December 31 2011. (in our council - other councils recharter on a continual basis.)

 

The intent of the JTE is clear that "all" unit leadership be position specific trained. The challenge for District Trainers is to get committee members into class - or go to the committees and provide the training on site.

 

Craig

[CHLees3rd]

Moosetracker,

 

Try sending your question to JTE@Scouting.org. It was mentioned at the end of the webinars that the email address was set up for such questions and would be monitored daily so that Scouters submitting questions would not have to wait days on end for an answer.

 

Good luck,

Chazz Lees

[NEPAScouter]

@pchadbo: (and, I guess, moosetracker, too):

 

I was surprised to hear that the JTE gold requirements would lead to you needing to get 31 *more* scouts recruited beyond the 35 you already have, so I went to do some more research (my own troop and pack were just going over the standards and goals) on this, and now have a question to make sure I'm not missing something.

 

Item #3 on "Building Boy/Cub Scouting" says Have an increase in membership or be larger than the average size troop/pack. The levels then say:

 

Bronze (Troop): Have a net gain of one member over last year, or have at least 14 members.

Bronze (Pack): Have a net gain of one member over last year, or have at least 19 members.

Silver: Increase youth members by 5%.

Gold: Increase youth members by 10%.

(Silver and Gold are the same for both Packs and Troops).

 

Now, my current understanding of this is that for any objective that a unit intends to get points for, the unit first must meet the Bronze level. If only the Bronze level is met, the unit gets the "Bronze points." After that point, the other levels are considered inclusively. That is, meeting Silver level would include the "achievement" that got the unit a bronze point level. But, the unit would only get the points for the highest level it qualifies at (in this example, no Silver+Bronze points, just Silver points).

 

So, in your pack's case, if you had 35 youth, for Bronze points you'd already be there because your unit has more than 19 youth. To be at Silver, my understanding says you'd need 35x0.05 = 1.75 = 2 new youth. To be at Gold, I would have assumed you'd need 35x0.1 = 3.5 = 4 new youth. (assuming one rounds up when the decimal ends in 5 through 9)

 

I don't see where doubling the size of your pack is implied by the Gold achievement level. If I'm misunderstanding things here, please let me know. Thanks!

[moosetracker]

NEPA - You are correct in what you say.. I think the key of what I take from pchadbo is the fact that he said the 35 is after a large crossover and some attrition which I take as meaning his percentage was based on an original much higher number.. But now he has 35 scouts.. I am unsure of which goal pchadbo was looking at Bronze, silver of Goal.. So them telling him he need to increase to 61 scouts, they may think they gave him a goal of say 10 scouts, but because of the scouts he lost at crossover, to him this is a goal of 35 scouts..

 

Same could be said of FOS, if your unit last year raise $2000 in FOS funds, and you loose half your unit in crossover, or the guy who gave the $1000 donation at crossover.. then putting this year's goal at $2150 would seem pretty unobtainable..

 

ctbailey - 12/2011..? We were told that the mandated training was pushed off a year due to the fact they can't get their act together with the computer software.. I know our registrar was buried trying to mannually fix the YPT that his computer did not have, yet people printed off the Trained certificate.. We were told the software needed to be fixed, and the BS Specifics needed to be offered on-line.. So we were given the new date of 12/2012..

 

CHLees3rd - Thanks for the email info..

 

 

[NEPAScouter]

Thanks for straightening me out, Moosetracker. I didn't notice the reference to the crossover depletion. While I'm in favor of the JTE objectives in principle, it's amazing the number of unintentional gotcha's that seem to have sneaked in to the measures. Oh well, back to the thread....

[moosetracker]

***UPDATE***

 

I wrote national per the suggestion and got the following back..

 

Great questions. Let me try to shed some light.

 

To your first question, the "All" in the silver level refers to all adults who are registered in the troop from Scoutmaster to assistants to members of committee to committee chair, etc.

 

The second question refers to the training specific for their registered position. You are correct that for committee members, that would be Troop Committee Challenge. We will look at making this more clear in 2012.

 

In the third question, we added the youth elections to this criteria because a fully trained troop committee should make sure that youth elections happen every year (you might be surprised at how many troops do not have youth elections at all). Youth elections really is an add on to this criteria, but is one of the most important parts of good troop operation. The task force wanted to make sure that troop elections was in the gold level to show its importance.

 

Thanks for your questions and observations. We are also aiming at continuous improvement, and your suggestions will help us make this an even better program in the future. Hope this helps.

 

 

I wrote back to add the following..

 

 

Yes it would help clarify it if the overall objective maybe should state that it is "Have trained and engaged Leadership." rather then "Have a trained and engaged troop committee." Also, probably a little late to swap, but the Gold level would then be more appropriate that the unit hold TLT for the youth training.. I know the TLT or something about youth training is somewhere else in the J2E.. But that would have made a more understandable overall goal for all 3 levels..

 

By the way, Fast Start is not tracked or even recorded in your software, I know I took it with the on-line training and it is the only thing not recorded, nor do I show a single person having taken Fast Start.. I am just forced to assume they have had Fast Start at some point.. I understand it, I was in a troop for years, at our parents presentation we played the Fast Start video, also allowed people to check it out of our library.. We never ever thought to send a record to council about the training..

 

 

 

[Adam S]

Thanks for sharing the update, Moosetracker!

[moosetracker]

***Update #2 ****

 

I didn't mention that I asked another clarification question because I ASSUMED with the first response you guys were totally right, but still I had to clarify, because I just had to.. I got back a surprising response!.. So now I have to share..

 

My seemingly stupid question..

 

Just one more clarification.. But I think I know the answer.. So if you are looking at say a SM.. Then the Silver level of "Specific Training" does not just mean, that they get the SM/ASM Specific training.. It means the full training for that position meaning the Fast Start, This is Scouting, YPT, SM/ASM Specifics and IOLS training.. Correct??

 

 

The surprising response that I got back!!

 

The IOLS is not part of the requirement. The scoutmaster will be considered trained when they have completed the indoor specific training.

 

Thanks again for your ideas.

 

[UCEagle72]

Moose ...

 

That last one really stumps me!

 

Of course we became a pilot council for 100% direct contact leaders "trained" (and that does include IOLS for the SM, SA, Team Coach & Assistant, and Venturing leaders whose units have an outdoor focus)