Criminal Background Checks

[le Voyageur]

You know, we really don't need to do any background checks because the solution to the problem is so plainly in front of us..

it's called parental involvement. If parents are really concerned about the safety of their children, than they need to get involve and stop passing the buck on to volunteers. Being too busy to be involved in the development of one's own children is not an excuse....why not a youth membership requirement that requires parents to be involved in at least a minimum of 4 hours of unit supported services each month.

 

By the way, been doing internet searches on ChoicePoint,it's a data mining company...so infer what you will, as for me I'm not for sale by National.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So color me dense...

 

I may lack the big picture, but I have been involved in our troop and district for 6 years now. I have not seen a shift to the right, or republicanism, in our area. ASM1 and le Voyageur

what do you point to to make your comments?

 

Now, I have to admit as a Roman Catholic with roughtly 13 years of formal Catholic Education, I would have a difficult time spotting a religious focus change in favor of Christians, but I cant say I have seen a political change. And I would say I am an independent, I voted for Nixon once, for Jimmy Carter, John Anderson, Ronald Reagan once, Bill Clinton once and for GW once (so far).

 

I am not saying the BSA hasnt gone the way that is claimed, I want to know why you think so

[johnsned]

I am not sure why you think ChoicePoint is a right wing organization; they are a leading company for background checks. They are used to screen potential employees, renters, and volunteers. They are contracted to do a criminal background search, yes they can access public records and find out what political party you belong to. But I don't very much that you are going to be kicked out of the BSA because you are not a "Right Wing Christian Republican". Anybody with the information you put on your Adult Volunteer Application could get that same information.

 

The reason the BSA is contracting this work with ChoicePoint is; If Joe Public requested a background screening of a potential applicant (having permission to do so) it would cost between $20 and $40. Most law enforcement agencies don't have the ability to accommodate bulk-screening requests. The law enforcement agencies also have difficulty supporting the data communication interface; they can't accept requests from varying data systems.

 

ChoicePoint and companies like that are able to take the data from diverse systems and interface with the law enforcement databases, also since they pay an annual license fee to use the databases, they charge much less per request than a direct request to a law enforcement agency.

 

I really dont think we should read more into this than the BSA trying to take a proactive approach to child safety.

 

I am with OldGrayEagle, I would like to hear your experience, why you think the BSA is making an aggressive effort to proselytize Christianity or Rightwing politics. I am like OGE, I may have a hard time spotting the public religious or political pressure. Could you also clarify the Hitler Youth doctrine and give examples of some of this.

 

ChoicePoint is not a Data Mining company, data mining is a computer process that systematically scans websites collecting phone numbers, email addresses and is used by business competitors to extract all product pricing data, i.e. .Get all the prices from JCPennys . Website to compare to your prices, search all Boy Scout related sites collecting email addresses to send camping equipment advertisements.

 

[le Voyageur]

Back in the 70's I was fairly vocal and much against the program changes that BSA created, what a mess. Needless to say, I was right, and in this regard I'll let the passing of time speak for me again. I'll be around to say "I told you so".

 

For those who care, know that in the interest of safety we are now in the process of giving away our individual freedoms. BSA's background checks will simply feed information to an outside organization who's only purpose is to make a profit at our expense. It's all about money...

In time, I predict that both the Federal Government and the priviate sector will soon be able to track and monitor every American regardless of where they are at, at any moment in time...

 

Here's an example as to what is now in the works....

 

http://news.com.com/2010-1069-980325.html

 

end of sermon....off of the soapbox. Feel free to let the Genie out of the bottle.....

[ASM1]

Well, we have opened a true can of worms here. First off I never made the implication about any religious shift. I have not seen any either in 35 years of scouting. It has remained steady, which is very cool with me. But in the last troop that we,(our entire family) was thrown out of after 6 years of service we were asked when we joined if we were Democrat or Replican. I refused to answer stating that politics is my personal preferrence and private. We were actually labled communist. Wrong! we are Democrats. But their wild visions lead them to ASSUME and we all know what happens when we assume. Next, a couple years before we were asked to leave that troop we started noticing that when a new family came into the troop they were isolated until their politcal factions were noted. If Republicans they were welcomed and encouraged to get traing free of charge and to be involved in the troop activities. If they were found out to be Democrats they were openly harrassed. The big method was when their child would attend a campout without their parents. The child would be permanently punished and denied activities. I have wittnessed this personally because I attended every campout. On one occassion I had to litteraly stop the scoutmaster from calling the parents of a scouts for a ficticious charge of missconduct. That family was thorwn out of the troop the following week by the committee chair in a private meeting. I was furious because I know this family very well. They are Democrats. When we chose a new scoutmaster, I as an ASM and my wife who was on the committee voted to approve the troop selected candidate because he was the best qaulified to take the position. His first order of business was to throw our family out of the troop. His reasons were that we were guilty of treason against the united states for being a liberal based family and not of military background. Nothing could be further from the truth. My family military history can match any families in this country with decendants dating back to the revolutionary war. That counted for nothing. At roundtable we pray TO, not for Goerge Bush. Funny, we didn't pray TO Bill Clinton, or for him to make the right decisions. But we pray TO "W". I bow my head and silently pray for his defeat in 2004. My right.

 

Hitler youth? How about boot camp drills every morning on campouts praising "W"? If you do not attend, you are forbidden for the days activities. My son would never attend. He was never denied activites until the end because our company donates a lot of money to the council. But in the end they trashed his summer camp and told us to leave the troop. They even tore up my sons Eagle project in front of the troop and we were removed in a troop ceremony.

 

Our council freaked out over this and the district director and executive contacted me to charter a troop and helped us get my son back into the program. But the slant and shift is there and it is dangerously corruptive. That scoutmaster was removed. but they removed the wrong person. There is one ASM who runs that troop with an iron hand.

 

ChoicePoint IS a datamining right wing organization. We threw them out of our offices. They told us that we can purify our workforce to accomidate our right wing agenda. And excuse me very much, the FBI has a full blown background check system to handle any workload. How do I know this. My son works there.

 

ASM1

[johnsned]

le Voyageur,

 

I also believe that on many fronts we are involuntarily losing many personal freedoms such as privacy. But in this case the BSA won't run a "Criminal" background check unless you give them express permission to do so, hence no rights violated.

 

I was told that the only response the BSA will receive from ChoicePoint is a positive query response to the criminal database (a conviction), and I think that is appropriate, they should not be getting another information such as; credit history, political affiliations, nothing of this sort.

 

I am not sure I understand why you believe this is all about money, could you explain?

 

[Rooster7]

ASM1,

 

I will take you on your word...But that is truly a bizarre story. As for the "right wing" conspiracy stuff in the BSA...I hope you realize that your old troop is one step removed from the Twilight Zone. You and others cannot seriously believe that your family's circumstance is typical.

(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[johnsned]

Rooster7, couldn't have said it better myself.

[johnsned]

ASM, I had a question, you said as a CEO you interviewed both ChoicePoint and VolunteerSelect, both organizations had the same right wing leanings? Both companies made you feel as they would invade the privacy of your employees or overstep the boundries of a routine background check? and do something with political leanings. If so I can understand your concern since you had personal dealings with both groups and I have not.

[pfann]

A few points to consider,

 

Police departments in some states are limited to what they can provide to the public in terms of criminal histories. In Michigan police officers must document a reason for running a criminal history and those reasons are limited (police job applicant, suspect in a crime, etc.)

 

A person can submit a name and pay a fee to the Michigan State Police for a criminal conviction history but this is only for the state of Michigna, no out of state information. This process also takes several weeks.

 

A person could individually get information about a criminal history but that would entail contacting EVERY court in the state.

 

I have not dealt with ChoicePOint but have worked with a competitor to do background checks on people. What these companies do is tap into public records across the nation and compile that information for their clients. they pay employees to compile records from all courts and other public record agencies and they put all the info together.

 

In all my experience with these types of companies, I have never once seen any political affiliation information in their reports. I am sure they could get this info but I, in my limited experience in scouting cant see BSA wanting or asking for this info., especially when the policy says you must be informed of the reason you are not allowed to volunteer. The BSA would not be able to fake a criminal past because they did not like a volunteers political leanings

 

Lastly, many police agencies do contract with these companies to get information as part of their investigations. I work for one of these departments. They provide info that assists us and it is info that we don't have the time and resources to get on our own.

 

[colomike]

I am new to this MB, but have been around scouting since 1962.

ASM1s story is the most bizzare one I have ever heard. I have to agree that Rooster7 stated my thoughts perfectly. ("one step removed from the Twilight Zone")

 

I'll guarantee that the group that I got involve with here in the Denver area DID NOT ask me what political party I belonged to. Nor would they chastise my son for his fathers political beliefs.

 

 

[le Voyageur]

Here's the reason why I say it all about money...

 

Yes, the information that Choice Point will provide to BSA about any person will be limited. But, the concerning problem is that there are no limits as to what Choice Point can, should or will do with that information once it is in their data banks becoming their property. It's a safe bet to infer that since ChoicePoint is a for profit company that it will be use in some manner to generate income and profit without consent. Why else bother to compile data if you don't plan to make a buck with it....

[le Voyageur]

Ed,

 

To answer your question on how BSA's background checks violates the 4th, 5th and 6th admendments is based on my reasoning that ChoicePoint has to operate only under contract law meeting just those requirements as agreed on and so stated in their contract with BSA.

Had a governmental angency such as the FBI agreed to conduct background checks then they would be operating under the restrictions of consitutional law. It's a savy move by BSA to ensure a winnable solution to any future lawsuits against slander....

[evmori]

le Voyageur,

Thanks for the answer.

 

I still feel backround checks are a good thing & should have been done all along.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[Rooster7]

le voyageur,

 

ChoicePoint is a for profit company that it will be use in some manner to generate income and profit without consent.

 

I could be wrong. You may have more evidence. Or maybe you've stated it clearly and it just went over my head, but...

 

Why are you presuming ChoicePoint's guilt? Where is it written that opportunity will always lead to abuse?

 

Why else bother to compile data if you don't plan to make a buck with it....

 

Will they not make a profit by providing the required background checks for the BSA? It seems to me that is sufficient motivation for compiling the data.

 

nonetheless I've been thinking about making this my last year with the organization because it no longer feels like Scouting. It's core has been gutted out and stuffed with too much politics and fundamentalism...

 

What was the "core" and how was it gutted? What is "too much politics"? Are you inferring that you disagree with the BSA's policy makers concerning atheism and homosexuality? Or is there something else?

 

ASM1,

 

Sometimes it sounds like the doctrine of the Hitler youth program. They are literally teaching my child that if he is not a Republican, he is guilty of treason.

 

Just to be clear

 

While I maintain that your old troop is uniquely wacky and definitely out of order, I hope that your comments were not meant to demean conservatives or the Republican Party. I see your troop's strange behavior and it's politics as two separate issues. Personally, I believe George W. Bush to be a great man. Nevertheless, the expectations and demands of the said troop are simply creepy.

 

You guys (le voyageur and ASM1) apparently have had some unusual experiences to justify your thoughts and feelings on this topic. I have not walked in your shoes. All the same, when I read your posts, my first inclination is to flash back to a movie I saw not too long ago - "Conspiracy Theory". But to your credit, in the end, Mel Gibson was much more sane than what anyone thought possible. Stillwhile I love the movies, this is real life and I'm having a hard time relating, most especially with your conclusions.

 

I'm firmly in support of the background checks. If one kid is spared the agony of being sexually abused, and just as bad - its stigma, I say praise God! My heart goes out to those boys (and men) who live with this scar.