Canceling District Training

[moosetracker]

Hawkrod in the original thread was upset about a training that got cancelled..

 

I as District Training chair am hoping not to cancel one, but I have a training coming up for BS specifics, CS specifics and a Den Chief training, with 11 trainers ready to go.. So far we only have one sign up for anything!

 

Aggravating is the fact the Statistics show that about 75 80% of those in our district needing specifics training are untrained. And I had four separate personal request to please ad a Den Chief training..

 

Classes are canceled in our Council if there are not a minimum of 3 people in the class.. So if I get 3 in Den chief, but none for BS Specifics, the Den chief will go, and BS Specifics will be canceled..

 

If I don't get more then 1 signed up for anything, they will all be canceled.. I will email the person who signed up the Wed.. before, and hopefully be able to direct them to a neighboring councils training date..

So far to promote it, I have promoted it at RoundTable verbally & in flyers to take back to the unit.. It is on the District Web site, I also did an email blast to all the units using our districts contact list..

 

I do have a little while, it is not until March 19th I will make a decision Wednesday 16th and email those who did register if it is canceled. I really do not want to cancel, as I have a lot of new trainers partnering with old trainers. This is the old Trainers last time out..

I can do one more Round Table, and I figure after a week from the last email blast, I can do one more Training email blast. I refuse to individually call for many reasons. I hate calling because few answer and for some reason most people now use an impersonal machine answering and not even telling you if you have reached the right party.. Besides the time and expense in phone bills, and then many now see phone calls to promote anything as being invasive.. I know if someone calls me to sell me something, it is the last company I will use if I ever do need that type of service.. I hate sales call, I definitely do not want to become a telemarketer..

 

What do your districts do to ensure a training is not canceled?

 

[dg98adams]

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt to prove it.

 

Canceling is part of the problem.

 

Last minute participants with or without registration is part of the problem.

 

Scheduling training against other council events is a problem.

 

Here's some things our council does.

 

NEVER Cancel Training - 1 participant "it's on". Might have to mod food/instructors (if part of the program).

 

Go out to units for training days (smaller but experienced training staff)- target IOWLS/IOLS/BALOO/YPT/LEADER SPECIFIC

 

Lump training in 2 weekends a year (still separate courses) - IOLS/IOWLS/BALOO(I personally think this does not work well).

 

And most important get training dates out on the council calender early and leverage Unit Commissioners to deliver the training opportunities/message constantly.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello moosetracker,

 

 

Good post and I think your reasoning and actions are sound. I find it a waste of time when my district training chair asks me to prepare for presenting the Tiger Cub Den Leader Training I do and no one shows up.

 

In particular, a year ago he nagged me to do that class at our regular March Cub Scout training. But heck ---- you KNOW that no one is going to take Tiger Cub training in March! The new crop of Tiger Cubs hasn't been recruited and the existing crop of Tiger Cub parents have nearly completed their Tiger Cub year!

 

 

As district membership chair, I decided that getting Tiger Cub dens started reliably an effectively was a key activity that every Cub Pack needed to sdo every year, but often it was done in a haphazard manner.

 

To improve that, last year I put together a program that included doing Tiger Cub Den Leader training before our June Roundtable and using our Tiger Twilight Camp done with our Cub Scout Daycamp as an example of how an effective Tiger Cub program should be done.

 

That was marginally effective --- I had two people for the training and one of those also did the Tiger Twilight program with his son. On the bright side, that one person was from my Cub Scout Pack and he has been our Tiger Cub Den Leader this year and done an excellent job.

 

The District Executive and I are going to be promoting the training and Tiger Twilight Camp as part of our spring recruiting program, selling this as a package in hopes that more people will participate.

 

That's my theory of how to improve turnout for training, but I haven't proved I can make it work.

 

Also, I'm trying to improve turnout at our unit recruiting training by offering a quality FUN activity at it that parents can do with their Cub Scout, hoping that will improve turnout.

 

If you could do something similar for training (can't think how, offhand) perhaps more parents would attend with their Cub Scout. Just a thought....

[Eamonn]

Have to say that when I was Training Chair. Canceling a Training just wasn't acceptable.

The goal of Training is to train adults, not have training sessions.

I hope that no one would cancell a Troop meeting just because of lack of attendance.

I'm sorry if doing the job means becoming a telemarketer, then that's what it takes.

Hate to sound harsh.

Ea.

[ghermanno]

Eamonn,

 

To reply to what you said:

 

"Have to say that when I was Training Chair. Canceling a Training just wasn't acceptable."

 

To whom? If no one showed up, did you charge the trainers extra to cover the charge of the course?

 

"The goal of Training is to train adults, not have training sessions."

 

That would by why you WOULD cancel if there were no adults.

 

"I hope that no one would cancell a Troop meeting just because of lack of attendance."

 

If just one boy showed up of a Troop of 20 and it was NOT the SPL who is doing the meeting?

 

"I'm sorry if doing the job means becoming a telemarketer, then that's what it takes."

 

Telemarketers are PAID positions. We DONATE our time and money to try to help a program that WE think is WORTH it. If others DO/WILL not donate the time for the class then WHY should I hold a training for just trainers?

 

"Hate to sound harsh."

 

Not harsh. Just curious as to where this is comming from.

 

 

My$0.02

 

Rick

 

[moosetracker]

dg98Adams - sounds like you have a good crop of expierenced trainers.. I on the other hand have a new crop of trainers, who are doing 10 other jobs so I feel honored to take this onto their scouting work load.. I am saying goodbye to some trainers who have been burnt out. While I am hoping to have this course get some registrations in the next 1 1/2 weeks, I would not risk burning them out or loosing them over demanding that they start training unit to unit over an 80 unit district.. I suspect my not being willing to overstretch my tiny training group will cause many to do the on-line training when available.. Who knows someday, I may have a training crew large enough to do what you are doing, but it would require the involvement of more Adults to be on the training committee.. I am doing some visiting of units to get to know them, and hopefully finding ways to increase my group.

 

Yeah, telemarketing is out for me.. I do not want to hate and dispise myself as I dislike telemarketers.. You volunteer your time for things you enjoy doing, you don't volunteer your time with something you despise doing.. I am hoping people in our district start valueing the training they are offered. I don't want them running and hiding when they see "the irritating over-the-top salesperson" coming their way.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Seattle -

 

I figure I should get some Den leaders who know they are moving up to the next level in this Spring course, but I agree a Tiger leader taking the course in the Spring will be rare..

 

I figure if the on-line specifics take a big dent out of those coming to training, then we may cut back to one specifics training a year, or see about partnering with a neighboring district.. But if it is only once a year, then the Pack training would be in the Fall for the newbies, and Leaders who just went up a level.. The SM/ASM would be in the Spring, due to the influx of parents moving from Pack to Troop from the crossover in Feb/March..

[Hawkrod]

I was the District Cub Leader trainer for 3 years. I actually got snookered into the job when a DE used a little bit of flim-flam on me and I bit hook line and sinker! LOL I will be honest and tell you that I think there were better qualified people out there with much more experience but they were not willing to do it. I did step up and committed to fulfilling the obligation as I had given my word when the DE told me it was a 3 year deal. I crammed and took every bit of training I could and passed on some really great things that others had shared with me. I actually took some trainings multiple times in more than one district just to see how others were doing it which I recommend to any trainer! Now, I constantly run into people who took training from me and they continue to tell me that it helped them so I think we were on track and did a good job. I did cancel a training once as it required a number of bodies to do well (we were supposed to break into Dens as part of the training) and I only had two registered participants and they were coming from another District. I called them personally and I felt bad but I had been told over and over that we were not allowed to lose money on training. I also had to quit accepting walk ins at the training because of the food cost issue because I could not buy food in hopes that people would show up. I had a pretty good track record with participation and some trainings had dozens of people. Now the programs have changed and the most recent training have been an issue but we now have a new pair of Co-Chairs and I am hopeful that they will get the District back on track. I have offered to help some until they get the backlog resolved but unfortunately my time has become a premium and I am limited in what I am able to commit to. I will also add that my issue with the trainings that were cancelled was not just because they were cancelled. The trainings in our District were scheduled and had a good number of participants and then cancelled and rescheduled and cancelled again and then rescheduled and cancelled again etc...It was not just once. I recognize that problems and life get in the way but it happened to quite a few people more than once. Just last night I was at an AOL for another unit and a leader asked me to do the training for them as they also had been scheduled and actually showed up to find a dark meeting, that is the problem. It is never good to cancel training but it happens. The problem is when the trainer cancels and does not get the word out. You have to take that list of registered participants from Council and call each person individually to make sure that they are aware that the training will not be conducted as scheduled. Once that has happened it also becomes critical to hold the rescheduled training as too many people can't afford the time off of work/babysitters/transportation etc... and to do it to them several times is a big issue. You can literally turn attending a training into a hardship for some people. We do live in a relatively isolated area although I know of more isolated ares but we have both geographical issues and also socio-economic issues and many of our leaders are living on a shoestring and have no real alternatives.

[BadenP]

In my experience part of the problem is that the so called BSA policy of mandatory training or you can't register is just not being enforced. National doesn't want to lose membership or units so they create a policy with no teeth which is basically unenforceable, much like the G2SS, so there is no real incentive for adult leaders to go to training. Many figure it will all be on line soon so just wait til then. The truth is putting all the basic trainings online was the beginning of the end to district trainings. National in its so called wisdom has now created a generation of lazy scouters who want everything handed to them with no effort on their part.

 

IMO, online training is like online universities manipulating the system to get your piece of paper with no real effort, no real testing of your knowledge, and no real life application of what you learned in the field before you graduate.

[sherminator505]

I think that the bigger problem is that National is trying to build a training culture via the mandatory training route. Rather than making the effort to determine how the courses could be made more relevant to the course participation so they will take a more positive attitude toward it, they have opted for a "take it or leave" approach that probably won't help retain Scouters or make them more likely to seek training beyond the bare minimum.

[Oak Tree]

And most important get training dates out on the council calender early

 

I couldn't agree more with this. As pack trainer, I really wanted to encourage all my den leaders to get training. But I would really want to have all the training on the calendar for many months in advance so that I could promote it, I could ask them which training they were planning to attend, we could avoid conflicts, etc. It's common for these things to show up one month in advance, and that's just not enough time. I don't want to be constantly checking the calendar.

[Mama Lope]

Okay I don't post often. honestly I only post when I feel qualified to give an answer that might actually help someone. in regards to canceling district trainings, my district had major problems with our district trainer and staff. Our trainer just decided he was no longer available to hold trainings. this happened just after he received his district committee key. it seemed that once the knot was awarded he got busy with other scout positions and commitments. so the rest of the training staff had to pull together to keep trainings on the calendar at all. after a few trainings having no one register it was decided at a suggestion for National that it was better to offer trainings on site unit by unit sometimes traveling to where the unit meets, with the idea it is easier for the few of us to get to them,than hope that leaders register for trainings. we called this road trip training. twice a month I was traveling to units on weekends to train the entire unit from brand new parents to refreshing seasoned den leaders,LDS units, and yes Hawrod, even the Fort Irwin units. it was mentioned several times at roundtable that if your unit needed training we would come to you. a line was even added to to the district training calendar that is you required specific training to contact the new training chair and she would come to your unit, it was also mentioned at program committee and commissioner meetings. hopefully this idea may help some of you. it seemed to work well for us for a little while, people were being trained. but alas this makes almost no money for council because most of the supplies came out of our own pockets. the new training chair has since moved on to the council training staff and is working on a new training opportunity.

Hawrod- you really have to get over this vendetta that you seem to have with this particular trainer, calling someone a derelict is really unbecoming of a scout leader, especially since this particular person once saved your life, oh at a training that you were teaching together. you would really be surprised at who reads these boards...... every single day..... and keeps records of the lies and misrepresentation that you spread.

[Hawkrod]

Sorry Lope but you wrote "when I feel qualified to give an answer that might actually help someone." so why did you drag up a sleeping thread and post while not providing any help? It is true that I stepped down after three years as the district Cub trainer because that was my original committment and you and Jessica were not even around when I made that committment. I did exactly as I promised to do even though I was asked to do the job under false pretenses and would never had done it had I known the truth. Despite being misled (and that is a very polite way of saying what happened) I did as I said I would and fulfilled my obligation. It is not up to you to decide when I can step down or stop training because that is for me to decide and I gave 6 months notice (which I think was plenty). As far as Jessica saving my life, that is a load of excrement. I had a hypoglycemic episode. I was not dying. The life she saved that day was the guy who wanted to give me mounth to mouth, I would have killed him when I got up. If you are going to lie at least do it intelligently. As far as the training you guys have done, if supplies came out of your pocket how come Council didn't make any money? And why is Council supposed to be making money? Get real. You were wrong them and you are still wrong and repeatedly canceling on Leaders is wrong no matter what. The sad part is I don't think the problem is you, I do think that you believe the falsehoods you have spread which is why we had to do what we did.

[Mama Lope]

I had this long drawn out answer all prepared but I changed my mind. This isn't the place to do this. We will have to talk this out eventually.I read your posts, and so do a lot of people from our district and council. This whole stupid feud is just that, STUPID; and it has gone on long enough. Your actions have consequences even though you have Aspergers, so does my 11 year old and I remind him sometimes daily that when something doesn't come out the way you planned, how you react to that situation defines your character. Calling someone a derelict, because training didn't go your way, is just immature and inappropriate. So ahead continue to post all these lies and exaggerations and keep on doing what you do, you are only tying your own noose. Training was happening; just not your way. That doesn't make it wrong. The only training that got canceled was when the district trainer was having brain surgery. which I think most would agree is a reasonable explanation. The other one was rescheduled and the training team went to the unit. The Baloo training that you are so up in arms about is offered quite a few times a year in our Council( other districts also)and your leaders should not be waiting to the last minute to complete required training. If the event was on your calendar months ahead than you should have had plenty of time to find another training. Poor planning on your part does not make it an emergency for someone else and as always you find a way to play the victim. Every thread you respond to ends up being about you and your plight, always misunderstood and taken out of context. For some reason you are allowed to act anyway you desire and because you have a syndrome you walk away. Don't apologize for having a condition. Saying your sorry means you take responsibility for your actions and you will try very hard not to repeat them, yet you seem to repeat yourself a lot. How many times has the key 3 had to tell you to stop this nonsense, posting little digs at us whenever you can,yet here we are again 6 months after I have left your unit. Enough is Enough.

 

bottom line on canceled trainings, while it may be inconvenient, annoying or down right rude to some extent, we are all VOLUNTEERS with lives, children of our own, jobs and Illnesses, car problems, money problems and a whole slew of other things I could add, our Councils are big with large Districts and plenty of trainings available to any scouters, if you give your yourself enough time to take the necessary training your events, have a back up plan, there should be no real complaints. quit griping and get to work, go get training wherever can. if you really want it no one is stopping you but you.

 

Hawkrod, especially since you were the out going district cub trainer why didn't you do the training for your unit yourself if it was so important? you have to take responsibility for what happens in you unit. you have plenty of trained leaders both in the pack and the troop, that all decided not to pony up. so instead of reevaluating your program you just call the district trainer a derelict and say she wasn't doing her job, when really as a COR you were not doing yours, by insuring that your program happens for you boys no matter what. you just blame other people outside your unit. I think I have made my point.

[vogelb]

I have the opposite problem. Our council posts a training calendar in the fall that runs through December. Most of the districts schedule their training within one or two weekends because they are trying to avoid conflicts with all of the other weekend activities planned by council and the district. It is now the end of March and the Fall schedule is still all that is posted. I have five adults that want, need and are willing to attend SM/ASM training but it is not available. One district has scheduled it for this weekend which is in conflict with our Merit Badge College. The adult training at MBC includes a number of training programs that are available on line but none of the training classes that must be done live. The SE forwards my emails to others but never directly responds. The VP for training does not responid. Other staff refer me to other volunteers who have not responded to my emails. My own district just announced that they will announce training dates next month for the classroom sessions for Spring and Fall and IOLS for Fall so they can combine both groups into one IOLS session.

 

Every scout deserves a trained leader....where do I get the training?