Is Woodbadge Worth it

[acco40]

Briggs & Stratton - I like that. Is that for gear heads only?

 

Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). E/I, S/N, T/F, J/P. FYI, I'm INTP.

 

A weird coincidence, I took a work related class in the spring and Wood Badge the following late summer with about a 40% overlap. No big surprise when one reviews where the course content originates from.

[BadenP]

If WB21C was ONLY about the personal contacts you develop then it would be a great course, because most of its contents are just fluff topics, personality quizzes, and management techniques. Like it or not you advocates of WB21C the course is very different from its predecessor, and very, very different from the original, whether you want to admit it or not. By all means if you want to take WB21C you should, as long as you do not expect it to make you a better scouter. If you are in it mainly for the beads then you will fit right in, earn your tartan necker and woggle and beads and try to justify your decision by harassing others into taking the same course while shoving your beads in their faces, even though you probably got very little out of it.

[acco40]

Boy that was an honest opinion!

 

Again, I ask, what are your expectations of a Wood Badge course?

[BrentAllen]

Wow, what an honor! Debbie Downer has stopped by to join the discussion!

[SR540Beaver]

Here is another honest opinion.

 

ANYONE who would spend in the neighborhood of $200, take two Fridays off of work, spend two weekends of their personal time away from home and family and then work five tickets items over 18 months JUST to get and wear a pair of wooden beads around their neck to be part of an "elite" club are FOOLS.

 

Of the good people I have been fortunate enough to deal with in WB courses, they were there simply because they loved the program and availed themselves of any and all available training to be the best unit scouters they could be.....for thebenefit of the boys. Occasionally you run across the odd one who wants bling, but they are few and far between. After all, who outside the small world of your council would even have any idea what those beads, knots, silver beavers, vigil, etc. even mean? For gosh sakes, I get snickers from grown adults when I walk into a store in my uniform!

 

Maybe I'm just lucky and have a good council with good volunteers. I'd like to think it is that way everywhere, but judging by some of the posts, evidently not. I guess your mileage varies.

[BadenP]

acco

 

My expectations of WB21C were simple, to give me another opportunity to develop some long lasting relationships/friendships, which it did indeed do. The second was to give me the so called "latest" tools to deliver an even better program to my youth as well as the rationale of National in changing both the focus and direction of all the scouting programs. As far as the second expectation was concerned the class FAILED miserably. Some of the staff and all of the old timers on staff seem to have trouble with the then fairly new curricula, interpreting the meaning of certain sections and unable to answer questions from the group very effectively. The powerpoint presentations were not very informative and very disjointed, not to mention extremely dry. Most of the class I spoke with felt pretty much the same as I did.

 

At the end of the first day three participants asked the director the process for getting a refund as they had had enough and were leaving and not coming back. This did cause some disharmony in the group, so the director called a special meeting of all the participants that night to allow people to vent their concerns. He said he was required to present the material exactly as in the syllabus in the manner he and the staff were trained to "meet National requirements". After the meeting some of us who had taken the former WoodBadge course, including the director and a few of his staff, sat around and talked about the differences between the two versions of WB and what we liked and disliked in each version of WB. Interestingly the next day the staff eased up quite a bit on the formality in presentation, even though the curricula remained the same dry dull and uninformative stuff.

 

Brent: your last post was so mature, you are welcome to crawl back under your rock now.

[BrentAllen]

SR540Beaver,

Anyone doing it just for the beads could easily just make their own set or buy them on Ebay, much cheaper.

 

WB was one of the best experiences in my life. 7 years later I still run into fellow participants and staffers and we talk about the course. Right now I am wearing too many Scout hats, but this is what God has called me to do at this particular time. Without the lessons I learned during that course, there is no way I could keep up with all the work.

 

Plus, it is a legacy I share with my dad, an Antelope from his course in 1975. Maybe my son (and daughter) will continue the legacy down the road.

 

I used to be a Fox, and a good ol' Fox too...

[desertrat77]

"Maybe I'm just lucky and have a good council with good volunteers. I'd like to think it is that way everywhere, but judging by some of the posts, evidently not. I guess your mileage varies."

 

SR540, that's well said. Not every council is like yours.

 

Quick war story. In the '80s, during the by-invite only era for WB attendance, I received an invite to attend. After the initial shock, I read the letter with great interest. It was the week long course, remember that. I had just come back from a short tour overseas and had some stuff cooking at work, but I thought I could manage the timing. Clean shirts (no knots, etc.)...sure, why not.

 

Then I read the names of the WB staffers. And groaned.

 

Many of these guys were the same self-important, condescending dudes that staffed my basic scout leader training course a few years earlier, comprised of three weekends in the class room, one weekend in the field. After a combined four weekends of their attitude, there was no way I was goin to attend WB. I'd gladly endure it for the mandatory/for-the-good-of-the troop training. But for an entire week WB? No way.

 

(Plus, I had further experiences with these chaps at camporees, roundtables, refresher training...and my impression was further solidified by each experience.

 

So I sent my regrets. My DE never forgave me.

 

Since then, I've served in three other councils. One council was very small, and during WB ramp up/sales pitch, some Very Important WBers came out of the woodwork to tell us UCs why we needed to do WB. Never saw these guys before, I guess they did WB only. Never saw them at a camporee or anything else

 

Next council: more of the same, just less obvious.

 

This council: folks seem to be really squared away. Very impressive. But I don't see the need to attend a course that is essentially a BSA-sanctioned repackaging of Management 101, even if with good cadre.

 

So to all my fellow scouters, if you have a good WB course, and it's your bag, enjoy. But please don't assume your positive experience is universal. Please count your good fortune; however, don't presume that non-attenders are any less dedicated to scouting.

 

(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[SR540Beaver]

desertrat77,

 

Thanks for the post. I have nothing against the old course, as I know many people who attended it and thouroughly loved it. Same for WB21C. It is a rare fellow that I run across who disliked their experience in either course. When I have been on staff and recruited, I took no as an answer. Wood Badge isn't a magical potion, it's just another training. You need to want to go to get anything out of it....just like anything else in life. If someone doesn't want to go, no harm, no foul. All I'm going to do is present the reasons why they might want to consider it and leave the decision up to them. If I were a used car salesman, I'd starve to death.

 

Part of what WB21C set out to correct was the good old boy WB club you saw way back then. There were councils where the same people staffed it over and over and thought they were scouting gods. They had their little domain inside the scouting world and you had to be deemed worthy to be included in the sacred circle. National knew it to be a problem. WB21C made changes so that once you were a Course Director, you could no longer serve on staff other than as a mentor or support staff. In my council, that is who the cooks and pot washers are for the first weekend, former course directors and they must be asked by the current CD. Where there is a large enough pool of people to draw from, natinal wants the staff to be comprised of at least one third new staff. This too keeps the good old boy club from forming back up. To ad to it, there is supposed to be a review and approval of a staff roster that looks at it's diversity. The want male and female, old and young, Cubs, Boy Scouts and Venturer leaders, different religions and ethnicities represented where possible. Hard to form a good old boys club there.

[1HR_A_WEEK]

Yesterday I had my beading ceremony for course C-26-09. It was a big day for me for a number of reasons, not the least of which was that my son got to be part of the ceremony and see his Dad's efforts finally pay off. I finished a few months ago and just got around to doing the beading ceremony yesterday.

 

Wood badge is in a lot of ways like advanced technical training. Since CISCO is a widely public brand, let's take a minute to consider the CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate Routing & Switching). This is a certification that employers love to see on a resume. A person with little or no technical skills can take this course, study for the test and in theory, obtain the certification with zero practical application outside of the lab environment.

 

I imagine that there are people who do the same thing with Wood Badge. The take it because they think it will make them look good, and for all practical purposes it may very well do that in the eyes of their peers who have take the course and gone through the ticket process.

 

But, like the CCNA, having a certification on paper that you never put into use on a daily basis, quickly becomes static, stale and worthless. Should that person find themself suddenly thrust into a complex emergency situation, their paper certification will be useful for on thing best kept to the caibo.

 

Wood badge is that way for leadership skills. If you don't take the effort to put the lessons learned into use on a frequent and ongoing basis, the benefit of this course may seem quite superficial. Take someone who can apply those lessons and does so in an effort to provide a better experience for the scouts he/she serves, and the results can be readily seen.

 

Don't get me wrong, a person doesn't come through WB and become Baden Powell. I often handle things in a way that could be done better, but because I try to keep the lessons from WB alive in my head I do on occasion get it right, or at least reflect on ways I could do better next time.

 

Lastly, I don't see why I shouldn't take pride in having completed the course and my tickets. It was a committment of time and energy that I could have easily quit doing at any time. Does it bother people because it doesn't fit into societies instant gratification expectation that society seems to have? Maybe.

 

Either way, just my two cents.

 

-Steve

Bobwhite Ninja's of Doom

C-26-09

[acco40]

Congratulations. Wood Badge (two words folks) should not be viewed as the pinnacle of training, like some feel, but just another supplemental course, and a good one in my view, along the trail.

[Basementdweller]

Is it worth it?

 

 

Do you want to be SM on the Jambo trip? Yes it is worth it

 

Do you like to add bling to your uniform? Yes it is worth it

 

Join the good old woodbadge boys club? Yes it is worth it.

 

 

Learn anything that will help me deal with a drug addicted mom who drops her boy off at scouts because he needs a male role model. NOPE

 

Deal with boys chosing sports or band over scouting. NOPE

 

Dealing with parents hitting and cussing you and your volunteers. NOpe

 

Dealing with boys chosing world of war craft over the scouting world. Nope

 

A word of advice. Make sure your patrol helps get the campsite tore down before the last giwell, otherwise you will probably end up tearing down and hauling it out yourself.

 

 

Biggest waste of 6 days and $300, not to mention the unpaid days off work, time away from family and the troop.

[acco40]

Do you want to be SM on the Jambo trip? Yes it is worth it

Wood Badge was not required for 2005, 2010 nor currently for 2014 Jambo Scoutmasters (by the National Council) but it is recommended.

 

Do you like to add bling to your uniform? Yes it is worth it

There is much cheaper bling and besides, if this is your intent in taking the course, by taking the course, it may change your intent!

 

Join the good old woodbadge boys club? Yes it is worth it.

Clubs are eternal. If you take the course then there is the "but you've never staffed a course" crowd. Staff a course and your not part of the "but you've never been a course director" crowd. In reality, sometimes the "good old boys club" is formed more by those who are not in it than by those who are perceived to be in it.

 

Learn anything that will help me deal with a drug addicted mom who drops her boy off at scouts because he needs a male role model. NOPE

One thing that Wood Badge helps to teach, to those who go in with an open mind, is how to communicate and how to manage conflict.

 

Deal with boys chosing sports or band over scouting. NOPE

Another topic it teaches is effective coaching and mentoring. These techniques may help a boy in his decision making about Scouts.

 

Dealing with parents hitting and cussing you and your volunteers. NOpe

Again, how to manage conflict as well as problem solving and decision making are Wood Badge topics.

 

Dealing with boys chosing world of war craft over the scouting world. Nope

Again, coaching and mentoring may come into play here.

 

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[SR540Beaver]

Basementdweller,

 

Just out of curiousity, did you go into it with any positive expectations or an open mind? Not saying you didn't, but that your comments are totally foreign to the experience everyone I've ever talked to had including myself. How did your patrol mates and fellow participants view your course?

[Crossramwedge]

Went through WB in 2008. All of the members of our WB Eagle patrol served on a WB staff in 2010. I really can not say what I came away with in going through WB, except I made a lot of friends and that alone was worth the money it cost me. I just enjoyed it. A bunch of adults getting together and acting like kids while learning scouting methods and team management skills.(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)(This message has been edited by crossramwedge)