Is Woodbadge Worth it

[BadenP]

Scoutfish

 

Until you have been through the current WB21C and completed your ticket you really are in no position to comment on anyone elses comments, or speak with any authority or credibility, unless you subscribe to the notion "Ignorance is bliss."

[Scoutfish]

Baden, it's not about WB, it's about your treatment of other people who like WB.

 

It reminds me of people who have the thought process of : "If you don't agree with me, you are just stupid!". It never occurs to that person that they themselves may be wrong or overly too opinionated.

 

Let me put it this way:

 

If 99% of every person who talks about WB21C seems to have had a GREAT time and cannot stop talking about the benefits and how it's helped...and so far, only 3 or 4 people seem to think it's worthless- then it seems that the isue is with the few, and not the course.

 

In an enttirely different matter, no matter what the course is - good or bad - then as long as it benefits the people taking it..then what else matters.

 

So far, the only things you say are it's not what it used to be.

 

Well and?

 

Nothing is what it used to be ...like these forums for example. Did you used to go online as a youth and chat about BSA?

 

And like I mentioned in another thread, If you prefer cheeseburgers over hotdogs..nobody would care, argue or start calling names or puffing out their chests.

 

Talk about Wood Badge or Scoutcraftand you cannot accept that it may just work fine for others. Nope, you feel you must convert them into haters too.

 

Why? Why not just sit back and let other people decide for themselves after taking it.

Are you scared they might actually learn something, like the class, have a great time and ultimately ...benefit them, their unit and the program?

 

Thing is, you do not have to like it. Do not have to stand behind it or such, but you also do not have to blast it, insult everybody who wants to take or has teken it or gotten benefit from it.

 

That attituide alone in nothing like what WB would support otr teach.

 

And you know..I am not a certified or trained meteorologist either..but I know when it's raining outside and I know when it's cold too!

[BadenP]

Scoutfish

 

Nice try but like I said in my prior post until you complete the WB process yourself you are in NO position to comment, judge, or accuse, not to mention the lack of your own credibility.

 

I think you will find that 99% of WB21C grads do not agree with your statements rather then base your entire opinion on comments by a few posters in here. You really do need to get a life.

[Shilue]

A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

 

Seems to me something is missing. Anyone else notice?

[desertrat77]

"People who don't want to do it or who don't like the very idea of the course will probably find it not worthwhile & should focus their time, money and energy elsewhere. WB (21stC or otherwise) is not a magic bullet, and it is not a requirement for good service to scouting."

 

Lisa, I think your comments are the most intelligent thus far...if WB adopted the same outlook, I think the course would have more credibility.

 

Scoutfish, criticism and praise for WB has been a constant for decades. If an internet debate is going to dissuade someone from WB attendance, then two things are afoot. One, the person is too easily persuaded. Two, some of the criticism may be justified and it hits home.

 

"Positivity" is a good quality. But it needs to applied at appropriate times. Universal application can get folks into the wrong car, wrong relationship, wrong church, or wrong training course. Analysis is important. And just listening to rave reviews isn't balanced.

 

As for the tone of this debate, and others where things have gotten a bit "spirited": while there may have been a few comments that have tread close to the edge, I don't see any problem with things overall. Sometimes, niceness can stifle an unpleasant discussion that needs to happen. And just because something has the official BSA stamp on it doesn't make it immune from mistakes or criticism. Healthy, frank debate is missing from many aspects of our society today. We shouldn't be so thin skinned. I put this in the category of being "brave."

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Naw...I know that BSA and some of the programs are not perfect. Trust me, I know!

 

My point isn't so much about WB itself as the fact that forum members complain that WB..or rather, the new VERSION of WB is not in keeping what BSA and Scouting is supposed to be about.

 

And then at the same time, call names, insult and try the "oneupmanship" or scouting skill based on somebodyelse simply having a different view of it.

 

I mean really, if people do not like the way WB21C ended being...I'm cool with that.

 

But to ridicule, personally insult and call others credibility as a scouter over wether somebody enjoyed or got something out of it or not......well, I can't find any pragraph or section in any of my 7 scout books or online stating that's within the scout spirit or BSA's intended plan.

 

Again, it comes down to people basically saying: "If you do not agree with my opinion - then you are stupid and not worthy of being a scout!"

 

And having taken WB or not...I KNOW that is not anything the original WB would support, imply or teach.

[SctDad]

Hey Guys and Girls, Remember me, this WAS my original post.

 

First, Lisa, thank you for your post. it was the most informative and insiteful.

 

As for the rest of the posts and arguements, you ever wonder why some people do not take woodbadge. Too much beating of the chests and I am better than you. That is why I was wondering about the reality and usefullness of even taking the course.

 

By screaming and insulting each other, none of you are working on the chance to get more people into woodbadge.

 

I think once again I will wait a few more years and see what actually comes up and see if it is still something that I want to do. Anyone think down of me. Too bad. I will still go and lead some great boys and have a great time doing it, beads or no beads.

[Scoutfish]

SctDad

To your original question: I'd say it all depends on you. Wether you take it or not shoudl be be all about your reasons and for nobody elses.

 

I was going to take it last year( Dec) but decided that I really hadn't spent enough time in leadership for it to help with what I knew. I guess I felt I needed to know more for WB to benefit what I knew.

 

So I am taking it next year. And doing it for my own reasons...not because Council wants me ( and everybody else) too, not because some think it would be cool to have another WB'er at our pack, and I am taking it in spite of a few WB'ers in our district who don't think it means anything.

 

I have met great WB'ers that were great people regardless of taking the class or not.

 

So is it worth it to you to take it? I don't know..only you can/could answer that!

[Game with a Purpose]

"Iy never ceases to amaze..." Reading many of these post reminds me of many a greybeard who constantly lament on "Scouting ain't what it used to be" Good! Many of these folks also lament the decline in the number of Scouts - many times attributed to being out of touch with the "real world."

I'm reminded of the centennial uniform shirts with the sleeve pocket with a hole in it - for electronic devices, for cripes sake! What is this program coming to?! The BSA must change with the times, or membership will further erode. The same is true with WB. Outdoor skills are taught elsewhere - it ain't what WB is now about. Neccessary training? No. A chance to learn and forge Scouting friendships? Definately! I don't belive BP or GBB ever imagined the program would remain static - evolution is natural.

 

Is it worth it? For most - YES. Gotta do it? No. Would I recommend it? If you plan to stay in it for a few more years, yep. If nothing else, the contacts/frenships alone will make it worth your while.

 

Just an ol' B'ar riding his ticket...

[SctDad]

Thanks again

 

Just a few things so that people understand where I am coming from

 

Yes right now I am a CM inn my 4th year as a leader. I am already an ASM with the troop that my son will be crossing to. They needed leaders so I volunteered. Now they also have a few more so my responsibilities there are not as strenous.

 

As for if I am going to stay in for a while. Well there is my first son who is moving to the troop in the fall, my next son is joining tigers in the Spring, and the baby that just turned 1 year old back in January. So I think I have a few years. Oh and BTW, my daughter is signing on with a venture crew in a few months because their crew along with some from a troop are going to Philmont. I have also been selected to go.

 

So yes, I am going to be around for a while.

[Eagle92]

SctDad, SctDad, SctDad,

 

You forgot a few other things you do. OA associate adviser and council CS outdoor committee. Helping to rebuild a chapter is very tough work, and the outdoor committee is slowly taking off.

[acco40]

As to diversity, I did not say nor mean to imply race or any other marker of diversity. I still do not agree in changing the program for diversity's sake.

 

I don't think the diversity portion of Wood Badge is trying to change the program. It is trying to educate. I still hear Scouts and Scouters tell everyone to "remove your hats" during a prayer. Even during our Wood Badge training, we had a Scout (male) dress up as a nun and do a brief comical routine during a "Scouts Own" type service.

 

The ticket reads like a lot of touchy-feely things that I have been forced to do throughout my life and I have never found them to be beneficial.

 

The ticket is made by the participant so it can contain "touch-feely" things or not. Yes, it needs to be approved by teh ticket counselor but the content of the ticket is really up to the course participant.

 

 

[jhankins]

The vision statement of our course director for fall of 2009 was diversity. His vision was to see that everyone walked away from that course understanding what the diversities in scouting really are, and how to apply the skills they learned to the diversity in their units. An admirable goal, to be sure.

 

So what diversities are really out there? We came up with a list of the ones we could think of:

 

Race

Ethnicity

Gender

Physical and Mental Abilities

Financial Status

Parental Involvement

Religious Beliefs

The Program itself

 

Pulling together even just one of these areas of diversity could be a topic of weeks worth of training if you think about it. Some of them already are. Thinking outside the box when it comes to writing that diversity ticket isn't a bad thing, it's encouraging us to look at our boys and realize their potential and how better to serve them.

 

My personal diversity ticket item was developing a pack camping program. We didn't have one, and the skill level, equipment, parental involvement and ability level just wasn't there yet. Education of the boys and parents had to happen. For the boys with parents who couldn't/wouldn't participate, plans were made to match their skill, financial or time constraints. Six years later the pack is still camping, and the needs of every family can be accommodated. Was that a normal "diversity" item? Not according to my Course Director. Did I learn what diversity was? I think so. It served my unit, helped fulfill and goal, and I learned much about the needs of the many boys and families in relation to the program.

 

[AvidSM]

SctDad,

 

Some people sign up for the course on faith and realize how much they needed it once they were done. Others take the course and don't like it at all, for one reason or another. It depends on the staff's attitude and ability - it also depends on your attitude. The Wood Badge syllabus and its staff are not perfect - nothing in life is.

 

What I can tell you is that the intent of the course is to get you to act on your ideas and how to get others to help you. There are many people who have posted negative things about the WB for the 21st Century: that it is a cult, it is too corporate, it does not teach scoutcraft or outdoor skills. You can either agree or disagree with these people, but it does not take away from its purpose.

 

So, faith is believing in something before you see it. It's not something that anyone on the internet can give you. Talk to other people you know and trust that have taken WB and see what their experience was. Did they use their ticket to make a positive change in scouting? Did they enjoy themselves? Did they meet interesting and influential people? Was it an emotional experience? Did they feel empowered as a leader afterwards?

 

[Twocubdad]

As to the touchy-feely stuff, don't sweat it. Four or five years ago, it really wasn't part of the course per se.

 

The "reflection" questions were mailed to you some point and your were asked to answer them on your own, before the course. Well, I lost the sheet and didn't think about it until I got to the course. But no one ever ask for it and no one else ever sees it. As you write the goals for you ticket, you are asked to review your answers and consider how your reflection impacts your goals. As in my case, I guess "not at all" is good enough.

 

Personally, I'm fairly phobic of that sort of thing. I have an ASM who is all over it and keeps wanting to give the PLC some Brigg & Stratton personality test, or some dang thing. But that ain't happening.

 

You will, however, have to jump through the hoops and write your ticket using the SMART goals format. I thought it rather lame. What I really learned was how to write goals in such a way that meeting them is a lock. The get-out-of-jail-free card in the process is the "R" in that goals must be relevant to you. "I will work with the Scouts in my troop on the Leave No Trace award" is relevant to you in that it is fully within your means to accomplish. "I will help five Scouts in my troop earn the Leave No Trace award" is not relevant in that you have no control over what the Scouts ultimately do.

 

Try that at work. See if "I will make 20 sales calls this month" will fly rather than "I will close $50,000 in sales this month."