Question about 21CWB

[magic823]

I've been out of scouting for over 20 years. Back in the 80s and 90s I was a ASM, SM, and OA Chapter Advisor, earned my Silver Beaver and attended Wood Badge in 1989. Since my grandson will be 11 this September I'm getting back into Scouting and have been asked to be a Unit Commissioner.

 

At Roundtable this month, they put on a big push for everyone to get Wood Badge trained. I mentioned that I had already been and they recommended that I attend the new one. My question is that it appears (and they said) I would have to give up my existing beads and rework another ticket. I'm OK with that, but then I see at Philmont Training Center they hare having a Wood Badge Refresher course for pre 21CWB folk and its doesn't seem to require giving up your beads or reworking a ticket.

 

So which is it?

 

Also, from what I pick up the new course seems to be covering all the Leadership stuff I learned in business school when I got my MBA. Not sure how I feel about going through all that stuff again, but I loved Wood Badge the first time I did it.

 

Steve Allen

[Tokala]

You have earned your beads and are Wood Badge trained. Based on your history that you listed, you know more about Boy Scouting than will be taught during a Wood Badge for the 21st Century course. It's not so much Scouting-related as it is managing skills.

[sbemis1]

my understanding from one of the SMs at Jamboree is that they are being pushed if not req'd to have 21CWB to participate at that level.

$.02

Being one of those with a less than stellar and abortive 21CWB experience, I'd opt for the upgrade if given the alternative.

 

But if you already have it, keep it.

[click23]

There is a lot of misconception about what what current bead holders must do if they wish to attend a new course. This is from the 2011 version of the Wood Badge for the 21st Century Administrative Guide

 

"Individuals who have attended Wood Badge in the past (either Cub Scout Trainers Wood Badge or Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge) may attend Wood Badge for the 21st Century provided that: (1) They agree to write and work a Wood Badge for the 21st Century ticket; and (2) they agree not to wear Wood Badge beads until they have satisfactorily completed their Wood Badge for the 21st Century ticket."

 

There is nothing about giving up your beads, but yes you will have to work another ticket.

[UCEagle72]

Magic --

 

Did my WB in 1983 - so I am in the same boat. I have considered the refresher course, but would not consider taking the new course. Done all the MBA stuff - can't really see a reason to do it again.

 

Actually, the course I want to take at PTC is District Key 3 -- just trying to convince our District Chair to attend!

 

[jhankins]

You have your beads, to me, you're already WB trained.

 

That being said, if you want to understand the material being presented to the boys at NYLT and the changes to how the patrol method is evolving in Scouting since you were a youth and went through Wood Badge, by all means take it again and have fun.

 

You don't have to surrender your beads, you just can't wear them until you finish working a 21C ticket, which is a cake walk compared to what you went through the first time! The ticket now days is about fulfilling the principles you learned directly to your unit, which you'd be doing anyway.

[magic823]

Thanks everyone. My wife has shown interest in doing WoodBadge also, so if she does it, I'll bite the bullet and do it again with her. If she decides not to, I'll head to Philmont and do the refresher. I would like to someday go to a Jambo as a leader, so if its a requirement to have the 21CWD I might as well get it done.

[BDPT00]

Just to be clear ... doing the refresher at Philmont is not getting it done (regarding Jambo qualification).

Having done WB and an MBA, you'll find much of 21CWB reduandant. It's all about attitude. If it's just going through the motions, don't do it. If it's to ignite a spark, go for it. "Might as well" falls a little short in the attitude department. To share the experience with your wife could be fun and rewarding for both of you, unless this should be "her" Wood Badge experience. This is a tough one. Good luck with your decision.

BDPT00

 

 

[John-in-KC]

First, you are Wood Badge trained. If you don't want to/need to go to Jambo in a primary leadership role, then there is no need to retake.

 

PTC is always a grand week to recharge your personal batteries

 

If you've got the management theory, WB21C is a review to plowed ground: Sometimes that's good to have.

 

The one true reason I will advocate re-taking is your Scouting network. Only you can assess how strong it is right now. If you've got a good network of folks currently active in your District, Council and in neighboring Councils, there truly is no real need. OTOH, if your network has aged, and you want to re-connect, WB is a good course to do it.

 

As far as your ticket, I remember what my TG told me, after we had our completion conference: This is only the beginning of your lifelong ticket. You know, as well as I, that in taking a UC position, you're still working your ticket :-)

 

Godspeed. I'm sorry I've not been more helpful, but if I've given you points to ponder, that's enough for today.

 

I used to be an Owl...

[magic823]

Quick question. What do you mean by "primary role"?

 

Very good point on the networking. I'm new to this council. I moved from Seattle to Boise and really know noone here in Scouting except my co-workers whom are all Eagles. It certainly is different here (I've noticed a big push for Scouter Awards and WoodBadge - more than was in Seattle).

 

My wife and I have decided that we will do the 21CWD this fall. The cost isn't that great and the experience will be good for her. Having done all the leadership and management stuff for my MBA I expect that most of it may be boring for me, but there may be new points to learn. As I orginally said, working a new ticket isn't a big thing for me. What I don't like is not being able to wear my original hard earned beads during the ticket process. It just seems an unnecessary restriction.

 

Steve

[John-in-KC]

Steve,

 

By primary leadership, I meant that you want to go to Jambo as either a Scouter in the Council Contingent (SM/ASMs) or as Staff to the Jamboree. If you want to do those, as I understand the rules, then retaking WB is not an option, it's a must do. Does that make more sense?

 

As far as the beads go, just have a quiet word with your SE/CD after the camps: How bad does (Council) want my FOS donation next year? OK, here's the cost of my FOS donations: Shall we say nothing more about this?

[jhankins]

The course itself won't be boring. The syllabus is designed to keep you busy and having fun with every step you take. You're not just learning, you're living the program while you're on course. My bachelors degree is in organizational leadership and management and much of what the WB course teaches I'd already heard before, but this time I got to hear it, live it, and watch its effect on others (staff, fellow participants, my units).

 

Go into the course with an open mind and an ear to listen and you'll have a blast

[Kudu]

 

Having done WB and an MBA, you'll find much of 21CWB redundant. It's all about attitude. If it's just going through the motions, don't do it ... "Might as well" falls a little short in the attitude department.

 

This is why Wood Badge is a cult.

 

It is not enough that you are willing to pilgrimage from Boise to Philmont to sit through yet another office manager course, Steve. If you do not bubble over with enthusiasm like a Wolf Den Leader (for whom 21CWB was designed), then you will be called out in a public forum like this for an "attitude" adjustment.

 

Like all cults, Wood Badge is an unsinkable rubber ducky.

 

If you dare to compare the two courses after you complete the new one, then your "attitude" will again be called out in public because "you did not take the new course with an open mind."

 

It's all about your attitude: Please make a note of that

 

As for staffing a Jamboree Troop, why not wait until your grandson is actually headed in that direction? If your current Beads are worthless now, what is to stop our "leadership" experts from switching from Tuckman's awesome 1965 "21st century" model to yet another bright and shiny CEO wanna-be fad, which will require you to take Wood Badge for the third time?

 

And of course, we could still "network" if Wood Badge was about the Boy Scout program, rather than the "universal leadership principles" that a cupcake needs to become an Eagle Scout without ever walking into the woods with a pack on his back, and Den Mothers need to force red-blooded American boys to sit indoors and glue macaroni onto paper cups.

 

jhankins writes:

 

if you want to understand the material being presented to the boys at NYLT and the changes to how the patrol method is evolving in Scouting since you were a youth

 

To see what "Leadership Development" has done to the Patrol Method simply purchase a copy of the course outline for "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training."

 

The Patrol Method has been reduced to a 20 minute session.

 

Except for the fake Baden-Powell quote at the beginning of the session, the Patrol Method is NEVER mentioned. It has been replaced with the "Adult Association" Method. The precious 20 minutes is spent on adult concerns about a "safe environment" and how adults can use the EDGE Method.

 

EVERY mention of the Patrol Leader and EVERY description of a working Patrol has been removed.

 

That is not an exaggeration.

 

Why do you suppose cult members with the correct "attitude" never speak out against this systematic destruction of William Hillcourt's life-work, the Patrol Method?

 

If as you write in another thread you are "Hoping to change things from the inside," then purchase a copy of the two-volume, eleven-hundred page Scoutmaster manual written by Hillcourt: The man who designed Wood Badge and the Patrol Method in the United States, and to whom the Scouter.Com Website is dedicated (see the lower right-hand side of your computer screen).

 

Copies can be purchased for about $15 per volume. See:

 

http://tinyurl.com/ydutcxo

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

Traditional Wood Badge:

 

http://inquiry.net/traditional/wood_badge/index.htm

 

[magic823]

Will do Kudu.

 

To effect change, I need to get networked. If that requires (and it seems to do so in my district) that I jump through a few hoops like 21CWB, I'm willing to do so.

 

To go off on a semi-tangent, the problem I see with Scouting today is they are battling issues and things they don't need to and have lost the focus on the things that bring boys to scouting. For instance, this huge battle about gays. Its a battle that doesn't need to be fought. Two-deep leadership will take care of any issues. If a parent is uncomfortable with a troop with a gay leader, don't put your boy in that troop. If there are no boys in that troop, then there is no need to be up in arms. Too often we legislate and create rules where the natural course of things will solve it. It costs BSA millions to fight the battle that in the long term, imho they will lose, maybe not in court, but in public option and dollars.

 

Boys come to Scouting to camp, backpack, and be with their friends. They don't come to be "taught" leadership skills. Those skills need to be crafted to be intrensic to and grow out of the program. Parents and Adult Leaders that do too much ruin the natural leadership teaching opportunities that the boys get.

 

"Off my soapbox, now"

Steve

[Gary_Miller]

I once though about going to 21CWB, then I heard that I would have to give up wearing my Old beads until my ticket was completed. Not this boy.

 

I worked two hard going to both BSWB and CS Train the Trainer WB in the 80 and early 90s. Not to mention working two tickets and all the years since to give up wearing my beads.

 

Steve, welcome to ORE-IDA council, maybe we will met up someday.