Ideas for supplimental training

[moosetracker]

Eamonn wrote this in the related post..

 

A few years back I took a group of adult leaders to our local scout camp site for a day of pioneering. We had a wonderful day building towers, bridges, gateways and floating flagpoles. Each of them said that they couldn't wait to get back to their troops and do this stuff. I offered to help

 

 

He is not sure if anyone went back to their units and utilized the training or not though.. He thinks maybe not..

 

But these creative trainings are the type of ideas I am looking for.. Something a little too big for putting into the University of scouting.. But Training that Unit Leaders would be interested in taking for innovative ideas, rather then training they are forced to take whether they need it or not..

 

I was thinking of offering a course to build reliable snow caves, but our Klondike stole the idea (not really, just parrall ideas and they got to it before me..).. So after our klondikes we will have lots of people trained in this skill..

 

Also would you offer this type of training to just Adult leaders.. Or Adult leaders and one or two from the units PLC.?? So the boys could have the knowledge to be able to be the leader offering the skill to their unit, and the Adult leaders are just the guides making sure the PLC, is teaching the skill correctly.

 

Maybe had Eamonn had some of the PLC as well as Adult leaders at the training session, the scoutcraft would have truely gotten applied at the unit level?? what do you think?

[Eamonn]

I think as long as you can get someone who is good at something, it can be offered as a Hands On Training Session.

For my job, I trained to be a First Aid Instructor. Not sure why? But the state paid for me to be able to teach Wilderness First Aid and Pet First Aid??

It is with the American Safety and Health Institute, because the courses they offer tend to be a lot cheaper than some of the other courses that are available.

Setting up the Council I serve as a Training Center really wouldn't be that hard or that expensive.

For my other sins!! I'm also a good cook (Certified Executive Chef.) Along with being a Dietitian. So I know a fair bit about food.

At camp I enjoy messing around with ideas that make cooking real food a little easier for the people (Scouts) who have to cook it. I've become a real expert in things you can cook in a Roasting Bag.

The idea behind the Powder Horn course was a good idea.

That being to introduce adults to activities that are available near to where they live.

I'm blessed that I live in the Laurel Highlands. The opportunities out there for outdoor activities are almost endless. We have some wonderful State Parks, White Water Rafting, canoeing, hiking, biking. Nature trails. In fact almost anything you can think off I think I can find.

Still, so many of the local Troops seem happy to just run with the same old same old.

Even if you have never tried any of this stuff, finding a local expert isn't that hard.

If I were to offer a supplemental Training course I'd love to offer one in Imaginering.

Have leaders look at the basic skills that Scouts should learn and should be good at then look at "Out of the box" ways of covering them.

Some ideas are so simple. - Who ever said that a Nature Hike can't be done at night?

How many Scouts can make their own compasses?

When was the last time they cooked in a Hay-box?

What about a hike using back bearings?

 

As to why I didn't invite youth members to the Pioneering day?

The day came about after a Outdoor Training Weekend. A good many of the leaders had just moved from Cub Scouting to Boy Scouting. Some of these guys were having problems with even the most basic of knots.

I didn't want them to in any way feel un-easy or give them the opportunity to hide behind youth members who might have been proficient.

The big problem with any training is not so much what it's about, but finding a good time when to hold it.

Scouts and Scouting makes so many demands on the adults involved and their families. I do see why anyone might not want to give up any more time for something that they might never use.

Ea.

[sherminator505]

Personally, I would like to see a course for Scoutmasters and ASMs that is based in the Twenty Tools.

[Kudu]

moosetracker writes:

 

I was thinking of offering a course to build reliable snow caves, but our Klondike stole the idea

 

The "Ice Box," a snow brick-maker is worth looking at. It takes much less snow than quinzees or the old Polar Domes. And you don't have to get your clothes all wet digging it out:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/shelter/igloo_kit.htm

 

sherminator505 writes:

 

Personally, I would like to see a course for Scoutmasters and ASMs that is based in the Twenty Tools.

 

Yes, and call it "Wood Badge"

 

Tool 1Setting Out with the Troop

Tool 2Chartering and Registration

Tool 3Patrol Leaders' Training

Tool 4Patrol Recognition

Tool 5Financing the Troop

Tool 6Troop Equipment

Tool 7Troop Meeting Room

Tool 8Troop Records

Tool 9Uniforming the Troop

Tool 10Program Themes

Tool 11Games and Projects

Tool 12Troop Hike Ideas

Tool 13Wide Games

Tool 14Ceremonies

Tool 15Scout Drill

Tool 16Singing

Tool 17Story Telling

Tool 18Troop Mobilization

Tool 19Literature Helps

Tool 20Scout Requirements

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

[Eagle92]

Some of my favorites have included the following:

 

Dutch Oven cooking

 

Box oven cooking

 

Scout Signals (both trail and sign)

 

Ones I wouldn't mind seeing

 

GPS

Pioneering

HA trip planning

 

Memorable boring ones: Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense

[moosetracker]

Eagle92.. At least now you can do you boring SaftyAfloat & SafeSwimDefense on the computer.. I know before they were on line it was hard for my husband to go as they were always offered on weekdays at the camp.. He worked weekdays, But having the Lifesaving & Swim Instructer training & being the MBC for many meritbadges dealing with water, the troop expcepted him to stay up-to-date. So he had to take a day off to re-up them every so often.. Now he just click, clicks and re-ups with no problem..

[Kudu]

Eagle92 writes:

 

Scout Signals (both trail and sign)

 

Yes, these Scout Signals and observational skills were required back when Scouting was popular. They appeal to the natural instinct of boys to understand and master clues and secret languages.

 

Trail Signs:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/b-p/signs.htm

 

Indian Sign Language:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/native/sign/index.htm

 

Silent Scout Signals:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/drill.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Moose,

yep it's online now, and at the time it wasn't. But the summer camps I've been to, 3 in the US as an adult, offer those courses at summer camp, and that was done at the May meeting. Plus my BSA Lifeguard cert wasn't expired yet.

 

KUDU,

 

Your site is where the presenter got all his info from. It brought back memories, and the only reason why it wasn't #1 on my list was because food wasn't involved. Gotta love it when you can sample the topic.

[moosetracker]

Some on the list of 20 items I can see interest in.. But things like Troop Meeting Room and Uniforming the troop..

 

What do you discuss with this? As far as uniforming parent buys, Troop helps financially strapped or the troop or district has a closet of "experienced uniforms".. What more is there to impart?

 

Troop Meeting Room.. You want it big & uncluttered enough to breath, move, and do break out sessions in.. Sometimes you have to make do if it is unavailable.. What else is there to it?

 

I haven't heard much about feedback about if you would include or exclude PLC from the district training..?

 

I ask because at our Scouting University the TLT (new version) will have a course on how your troop should run a TLT.. (From what I heard, it is now a mix of the TLT (which wasn't favored) and the prefered old JLT program).. But, this is suppose to be run by the SPL.. Yet the SPL is not allowed to go to the training on a course to explain to them how to run the course.. Only the Adults... I don't think I can go because as being a DTC.. I am expected to be a worker bee that day, but I plan to send someone from my training staff to it to learn from it, so we can put on our own TLT training which includes the Adult Leader and SPL (and whoever 3rd party needs to come to make no one-on-one issues)..

 

Does anyone else see a hole in the concept of boy-run.. boy-lead.. but the lack of training we offer the "Leader".. I guess the concept is to train the Adult to guide the youth, but it kind of confuses the Adults on what is the difference of Leader & guide.. If we train both, and the boy is able to take up taking the info back to the unit on the get-go, I just think it helps un-confuse the issue..

 

 

[Kudu]

moosetracker writes:

 

I ask because at our Scouting University the TLT (new version) will have a course on how your troop should run a TLT.. (From what I heard, it is now a mix of the TLT (which wasn't favored) and the preferred old JLT program).. But, this is suppose to be run by the SPL..

 

The Patrol Leaders' Training listed in the 20 Tools has nothing to do with TLT. It is Green Bar Bill's position-specific outdoor training course.

 

It is lead by the Scoutmaster, not the SPL: The Scoutmaster forms a "Green Bar Patrol" with himself as the PL, the SPL as his APL, and the Patrol Leaders as Patrol members.

 

The "Patrol Leader" then conducts Patrol Meetings to show the Patrol Leaders how to conduct Patrol Meetings for the purposes of outdoor advancement skill training and adventure planning.

 

The "Patrol Leader" then takes the Patrol on the Patrol Hike that they planned in the Patrol Meetings to show the Patrol Leaders how to plan and conduct Patrol Hikes without adult supervision.

 

The "Patrol Leader" then takes the Patrol on the overnight Patrol Outing that they planned to show the Patrol Leaders how to plan and conduct Patrol Outings without adult supervision.

 

See:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

 

As for your questions on the other 19 Tools, if you are interested in Training you might consider purchasing the two-volume set that details these 20 Tools. You can currently pick up the two volumes for about $15 per volume:

 

http://tinyurl.com/368exou

 

I have a standing offer to purchase the two volumes at $15 each from anyone who does not find at least 1,000 new ideas (one per page) that he or she can adapt to the current program.

 

The chapter on how to turn hikes into backwoods adventure entertainment is worth the purchase price all by itself! When 70% of auditoriums of sixth-graders sign (in front of their peers) a list asking me to call their parents so they can be Boy Scouts, under the column asking what they want to try first, many of them answer "hikes" even though I don't usually mention hikes.

 

Too much of the BSA's so-called health initiative is centered on anti-adventure, anti-Scouting, indoor school stuff like push-ups and pull-ups.

 

Why not Hikes and Wide Games:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[moosetracker]

Thanks Kudu.. I might just pick up the books.. Sometimes though with older books, I am puzzled by the reference to old fashioned do-hookies and thing-a-ma-bobs.. And then can't make heads or tales out of what they are trying to tell me.

 

But my example was not at that point a reference to the 20 tools of scouting.. Just an example of how odd I find the program, saying the boys are the leaders, yet in any Leadership training the district holds & Council, has an "Adults Only" clause.. (except for EDGE.. I know alot of you people would be thrilled to hear that your PLC can sign up and take EDGE..)

 

So maybe my example is not a good one, as you equate it to your "Older then JLT" program, and on that the SM takes over the leadership completely in order to teach the scouts.. So you would not see it an advantage to bring your SPL to a training on How to train the SM to take leadership to train the SPL..

 

But, if you were to do a outdoor rock climbing, would you think the SM should get the training from someone else and bring it back to teach the Scouts, or teach the SPL so he can teach the scouts (with between the middle man, there is more chance of forgetting parts & pieces..) Or would you have someone come in to the unit to train everyone.. Or if the space was limited and the person could not come to your unit, would you have some boys go to the training so it is not just the adults bringing back the information..?

[Kudu]

moosetracker writes:

 

Sometimes though with older books, I am puzzled by the reference to old fashioned do-hookies and thing-a-ma-bobs.. And then can't make heads or tales out of what they are trying to tell me.

 

That was my reaction when I first started to read about Baden-Powell's program. One of my jobs in Baden-Powell Scouting back in the 1990s was to translate the English requirements and rule book into American.

 

Someday I will write a BSA to B-P Dictionary

 

http://inquiry.net/scouting_dictionary/index.htm

 

Hillcourt's handbooks are different. When asked why his writings were so popular with Boy Scouts he replied that because English was a second language for him, he kept his sentences simple, easy for a boy to understand.

 

If you start on page one and read the Handbook for Scoutmasters sequentially, everything is explained so that volunteers new to the movement (many of whom did not finish high school back then) can understand.

 

The bigger danger is to see a familiar Scouting term and assume that it means the same thing. "Patrol Method" meant outdoor adventure without adult supervision (when appropriate), but now it primarily means sitting in a PLC meeting to plan Webelos III campouts.

 

Likewise the term "SPL" in most people's minds means chain of command SM-->SPL-->PL. However in the Patrol Method's Golden Era, the Patrol Leaders hired and fired the SPL, so it was more obvious that the chain of command was PLC-->SPL.

 

"Hike" meant the pure entertainment of outdoor adventure: "A hike is a walk with a purpose" (page 604).

 

The Troop program consists of outings supported by Troop meetings, rather than of Troop meetings with occasional outings thrown in as supplementary features (page 602).

 

moosetracker writes:

 

So you would not see it an advantage to bring your SPL to a training on How to train the SM to take leadership to train the SPL..

 

I run a Troop according to personalities rather than policies.

 

BSA Scouting procedures have varied considerably from decade to decade over the last hundred years, which in turn was radically different from Baden-Powell's program in the rest of the world. Every program worked for millions of Scouts (although the "Leadership Development Method" is unique in that it caused two million Boy Scouts to quit).

 

So when rebuilding a small Troop I do not use an SPL at all (as per B-P), so that the leadership talent remains in the Patrols.

 

moosetracker writes:

 

But, if you were to do a outdoor rock climbing... would you have someone come in to the unit to train everyone..

 

Yes, that is how I did it. I would get a friend to come in for a month and teach the entire Troop how to climb and repel the gym walls.

 

On the other hand, the Council limited adult canoe training to one Scout per three adult leaders, so I would take the SPL if he was the dominant personality in the Troop. In a two Patrol Troop, I would try to dig up six adults, or make other arrangements to take the two Patrol Leaders.

 

Remember that I consider all "Leadership Development Training" to be fake. It's just smoke and mirrors.

 

An exceptional SPL is a natural leader (about one per 20-Scout Troop) at least equal to an average adult volunteer in all things except experience and judgement. Real Patrol Leader Training is an applied outdoor skills course that teaches Patrol Leaders how to manage risk. It allows the Scoutmaster to decide how far (literally) he can trust each Patrol Leader. A good SPL can provide insight in that regard, but it is the Scoutmaster who must take responsibility for managed risk.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

[ctbailey]

moose,

 

I think the rock climbing example might be too extreme, due to "Climb on Safely" training and the G2SS. But if you were to replace "rock climbing" in your example with say fly fishing, or snowshoeing, then I'd say "yes." The SM or advisor (or even CM) should try and get at least a primer on the subject, but still know where the true "experts" are. In my experience, when a Unit leader feels they are personally unknowledgeable in an activity, the activity won't happen. If that Unit Leader has even a small understanding, there is a good chance the activity will happen.

 

Our purpose as District trainers and Commissioners is to build the "database" of experts that units feel comfortable contacting for help. We volunteers need not be the experts, and certainly the Unit leaders are not expected to be experts in all areas of Scoutcraft. As for the youth component, the PLC does not know what it doesn't know, so adults are still required - even in the most perfect boy-run program.

 

One often underutilized tool at the Unit level is the "unit resource survey," which is a simple document that adults and parents are given, where they are asked to list their abilities and or favorite activities. You can find this in a number of places, including the Scout Master Handbook and Cub Scout Leader book.

 

There is nothing stopping a District Training Chair from sending out a "District Resouce Survey" to all district scouters and even all the unit leaders. I am positive you will be absolutely amazed at the pool of talent that is out there, just waiting to be asked to show their favorite Scoutcraft.

[moosetracker]

Good thing I don't need to be the "expert" at everything.. In fact when looking for someone for this job the District was looking for someone who was a "non" trainers so they focused more on organizing the trainers and less on doing it all themselves.. I was a great canadate for being the "not-know-it-all".. position..

 

I rely heavily on everyone else to be the experts.. But the survey may be great..

 

You are right about being amazed.. When I did my first IOLS, I could not find any of my normal trainers that could do the Plant & Animal Identification part of the course.. I asked at the RT, for people.. I asked outside our district.. No one.. My son studied up on it, and I got a kit from the State Fish & Game.. Not great, but a passable job on how people who are not experts can know enough to present the topic..

 

So what did I find.. 3 or more people in the course who were experts.. And those in the course could point to others in the district with the knowledge.. Now I have a large list for who can do Plants & Animals for my IOLS..

 

It is just getting them to fill them out.. The reluctance is in the "unknown" of what we will look for then "volunteer" them to help out with..

 

I realize the kids will not be the natural experts.. The title of SPL or PL does not label you expert in everything.. Neither does the title of SM make you expert in everything..

 

I just think the best way is if possible is in order of best to worse:

1) getting the adult expert in to teach everyone in the unit.

2) to get some adults and some of the PLC out to learn from the experts and bring the skill back to train the others in the unit.. So the SPL/PL have the opportunity to offer leadership with the adults in training the rest of the unit..

3) just have the Adults train so that they are the Leaders for the unit..

4) to go with no knowledge and hope for the best.. (this could be #5 if things don't go so good)

5) Don't even try

 

Adults during training will remember the boring saftey issues where the boy during training will remember the fun skill sets learned.. So definately Adults need to be trained not only youth..

 

But BSA District/Council seems to never offer option #1 or #2.. Only option #3.. The units are on their own to organize training using option #1 or #2..

 

The Rock climbing just came as a second example to mind, when my TLT wasn't working, because I remember discussing with a Venture crew about preparing for a Rock climbing trip by doing various trainings for about 6 months before going on the event, rather then just going without any knowledge or training and just following the Expert like sheep during the event.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Ok I got a few more ideas.

 

Look at local places that may be able to help support program. We had a local museum come by and provide info on what they can do with both Cubs and Scouts. Grant you it's "indoor camping" but it can be a nice alternative whent he weather if really foul. AND they get to play with fire, albeit in a controlled experiment.

 

At a council camporee, we had several area business provide info on their services. Best part is that not only were they talking wbout what they can help out with, they were also selling stuff too. Got my service kit for a stove there, and at a deep discount.

 

 

Another idea would be to ask the RT participants what they want.

 

A final idea, one to put the "OUTING in ScOUTING," is to have folks talk about equipement: boots, gps, etc.