IOLS, etc., at summer camp

[shortridge]

 

For those of you whose councils offer adult leader training such as IOLS at summer camp - how is that done, logistically? Do the SMs and ASMs separate entirely from their troop for a couple days? Do they get to eat meals and have downtime with their Scouts? Is the training offered in short stints, like a few hours each afternoon, or in whole-day blocks? Who are the trainers - volunteers or paid camp staffers?

 

Just color me curious ... seems like an efficient use of time.

[OldGreyEagle]

the camp we normally go to has IOLS, the Camp COmmissioner "runs" it. He asks for help at the Sunday Campfire, getting people together who know their stuff and then during the week they do the sections,trying to accomodate the presenters schedule, by Saturday they are done

[Eagle92]

Short,

 

I can ask my friend later today the details as he did just that. but here is what I know.

 

He was a paid staffer for the entire summer and his job was training SMs and ASMs in SM Specific, IOLS, and if need be This I scouting. One of the advantages of having an lost his job was that he had the time to work summer camp.

 

 

One idea I proposed elsewhere was using SCOUTCRAFT staff for IOLS. Either expanding the staff to include more folks, or figuring out how to use your present staff more effiecenlty. Or You can use your First Year Camper Staff since they should be teaching the T-2-1 outdoor skills already.

 

Why use SCOUTCRAFT or FYC staff. For the following reasons:

 

1) forces the staff to truly master their skills so that they not only teach new scouts, but also new leaders.

 

2) Shows new leaders what older scouts, Venturers, and young ASMs. For whatever reason, as a young ASM I had problems with other leaders acknowledging that I did have the KSAs to do the job despite my age.

 

3) By having folks who are youth, or younger leaders teach them their skills, they may get a better feel for the patrol method.

 

4) They may also get a feel for what the youth want in their OUTDOOR (emphasis, not shouting) adventures.

 

5) they may understand that while some camping activities may be new to them and outside their comfort zone, they can look to resources within their troop, i.e. youth leaders who do have the KSAs and experience to do some, to do more advance activities.

[Kudu]

This summer I blundered into an IOLS course at Camp Rainey Mountain (Georgia) in which Webelos III dads sit in folding chairs and watch "Patrols" of ten and eleven-olds go through the camp's first year "TNT" course.

 

The IOLS course director boasted that Scouts breeze through "90%" of the Tenderfoot through First Class skills (including the five mile hike) in fifteen (15) hours!

 

In other words, there is no "hands-on" instruction for adults in all that now remains of Baden-Powell's Wood Badge.

 

The sad thing is that Camp Rainey Mountain is a first-rate summer camp (by 21st century anti-Patrol Method standards).

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[moosetracker]

The IOLS does have some hands on.. It trys to follow EDGE, but somethings you just can't do.. Like talk to everyone about backpacking, then everyone should have their backpacks to go on a hike.. Well the real green participants come with pillowcases & duffle bags, just because you talk to them about backpacking their pillowcases & duffle bags do not suddenly transform into backpacks so we can go on a hike..

 

Sad also is that they try to rush through all the requirements tenderfoot to first class with the scouts.. Our troop you come home from camp and still demonstrate what you learned before sign off (and our camp more does about 40% not 90%).. But, how many troops just take the list of accomplished requirements from summer camp and sign-offs the scouts books with it excepting everything at face value?(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Kudu]

moosetracker writes:

 

Sad also is that they try to rush through all the requirements tenderfoot to first class with the scouts

 

Yes, when Scouting was popular it took at least a couple years to become a competent First Class Scout.

 

Now it only takes a few hours.

 

God forbid we ever do that to office leadership formulas!

 

moosetracker writes:

 

Our troop you come home from camp and still demonstrate what you learned before sign off ... But, how many troops just take the sign-offs and accept them at face value?

 

Our town's local Scout Troop asked me to supervise their "first year program." I sat through Rainey Mountain's "TNT" course and recommended to the Scoutmaster that the Scouts demonstrate what they had learned, but he looked at me like I was crazy

 

The camp "Awards Report" went directly into their Troopmaster records.

 

Nobody (but me!) would ever admit that in a public forum like this, but I suspect that moving Wood Badge to IOLS insures that most Troops in the United States take first year summer camp reports at face value (as they do with Merit Badges, after all).

 

I mean how much do we expect a former Den Leader (who has never camped before in his or her life), to remember from a one weekend "outdoor" course, especially if all they do is sit in a chair watching ten-year-olds "earn" 90% of First Class in 15 hours?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

True, if the IOLS participant has learned the skills before comming they are bored in IOLS, if they are green, they walk away with glazed eyes, and you know you really just showed them what they need to learn, and gave them alittle time for some hands on.. But, remember it?? Ha.. Ha Ha.. Ha Ha Ha...

[Stosh]

At the camp we attend last summer, my recent new ASM took their IOLS training. While the boys were off to MB, he was off to IOLS, every day all day long. He said it was really good and taught by a commissioner who knew what he was doing. That same ASM went on to WB in the fall and is now working his ticket.

 

Stosh

[moosetracker]

Well if they spread IOLS over a 5 day period, chances are they may have worked with him longer.. Unless it was 4 hours over the 5 day period.. Or he may have had knowledge in some of the items, and just needed to learn and concentrate on half..

Even if not, he was not thrown hundreds of things non-stop for every waking minute of 2 days.. so he could go off and digest some, and come back for more. Over all it probably was a better way to learn it.

 

Our camps only offer the smaller trainings Youth protection, saftey afloat etc.. Not IOLS, OWL or Specifics..

[Troop22]

You all will get a kick out of this.

When I attended IOLS it was a 1 weekend course(#1 problem, too short). Of couse we broke into patrols and we were to do everything just like the Scouts. Our biggest problem was the trainers. They seemed more interested in each other then to interact and teach new leaders.

The leader teaching firebuilding actually used a McDonalds wax cup to start the fire. Several people taking the training questioned him why he did not look around and find natural material to start the fire he stated "You can usually find a Mcdonald's cup laying around".

 

The First Aid instructor was also teahing the wrong information about "Implied consent" laws of CPR. I got him alone and questioned him about it and he said I was mistaken. On of the other trainees(a registered nurse) heared me and confirmed I was correct. The instructor siad we are both wrong. I got home and called ARC and I was correct.

My point is that if the trainers are not teaching the leader correctly, what training are the Scouts getting?

By the way, I am signed up to take the CPR instructor course next month. The life the Scout saves might be mine!!!!!!!!

 

(This message has been edited by Troop22)

[Eagle92]

One of the problems in havig volunteer trainers: you sometimes get what you paid for

 

Seriously though that is a challenge in training: getting good instructors. I've seen first hand some inadequate training in my opinion. Instructors not as knowledgable as they think they are, instructors not practicing skills in advance, not reviewing materials ahead of time, not having adequate supplies, etc.

 

Now I will cut some slack to insturctors who do not have enough supplies to a degree. Sometimes it's hard to guage how many will show up last minute. I know in my BALOO course I took, 15 signed up, instructor was prepared for 20, and almost 30 showed up. In the course I taught, 2 preregistered, and 4 showed up the day of the event.

 

Gonna solve that problem by including a late fee to cover the cost of the trip from camp to the grocery store

[Troop22]

Very True Eagle92.

I know we all volunteer and I appreciate it. If I see incorrect training I try to offer help but I think the Councils need to pay extra attention to individuals teaching courses that may put someones life at risk.

Getting back to the original question about training during Summer Camp. I was told that the Camp we are planning to attend in 2012 holds classes during camp. The way the handle it,so I'm told is the staff gives the Scouts leadership while the leaders take the courses. The courses are while the Scouts take MB classes.